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Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: SLO_Town] #5325489 01/17/20 05:28 PM
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Wolf359 Offline
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Top end talent also value lifestyle. So managers and other executives that get paid a lot don't want to live in the middle of nowhere. Those are the guys making the decision. All the people in the company are important. No point losing a large percentage of your employees if you move to the middle of nowhere.

Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: dareo] #5325500 01/17/20 05:43 PM
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PandaBear Offline
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Originally Posted by dareo
Maybe your right but if you are [the talent] and you want to work for [google, apple, fb, amazon, ect] you want to work there for the name first and pay second. People compete worldwide for these jobs and would probably take them even if they were in Alaska. The money can play into it as well seeing as some senior developers can be 300-500k at Google for example. The people would chase the company wherever it went. They just all are in a very expensive area. If 1-2 major players moved out like say Google and FB, then the values would normalize in the bay area improving life for all others left behind.


Reputable companies will pay you top money too. The fastest way a company becomes reputable in a new field is to pay top dollar to recruit from another reputable company, and the fastest way a reputable company go down is to be cheap to the employees.

Example:

Apple recruits most of the good wireless engineers from Motorola, Palm, Sierra Wireless.
Google jump start by recruiting from Microsoft during Steve Balmer time.
Facebook get big in ad by beating Google in every single competing offer (bring your Google offer, we'll beat it).
Microsoft lost a lot of people because they adjusted their stock grant policy, and outsource to India.
Cisco and HP, what can I say, they are not even tech companies anymore.
Netflix paying you top of market, and they will do the market price audit for you every year, you won't even need to go interview to get that, their HR will do it for you automatically.



Now please name some good companies that have been getting bigger and better by relocating to cut cost? I'd like to hear and avoid them in my future.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: Wolf359] #5325505 01/17/20 05:47 PM
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PandaBear Offline
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Originally Posted by Wolf359
Top end talent also value lifestyle. So managers and other executives that get paid a lot don't want to live in the middle of nowhere. Those are the guys making the decision. All the people in the company are important. No point losing a large percentage of your employees if you move to the middle of nowhere.


So are the super riches that live in Atherton, and visit the VC offices on Sand Hill Road, Palo Alto. Unfortunately the riches decide where the start up should be at, and the start up has to be near the riches to get funding, and the VCs to supervise.

Last edited by PandaBear; 01/17/20 05:48 PM.

"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: SLO_Town] #5325530 01/17/20 06:20 PM
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dareo Offline
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Google is big enough to move anywhere and take their people along. Amazon, Jeff Bezos, they would do ANYTHING to save a buck. The guy's building his own airport. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it wont happen in the future. If you did relocate your giant tech company it would be a bit harder for your existing talent to jump ship. They'd have to move.

Where does the crazy salary wars and real estate prices end up? Crashing, IMHO.

Wal-Mart has top level executives in the sticks of Bentonville Arkansas, been there, its a dump prospering because wal-mart happens to be there.

its all mildly interesting!


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Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: Wolf359] #5325549 01/17/20 06:56 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Originally Posted by Wolf359
Companies set up shop where the talent are.

This is exactly the reason.
For example, Ford, the Dearborn guys, wanted to learn about and develop an autonomous car. They opened up an office in Palo Alto. Filthy expensive but they wanted the local talent.
Ford Silicon Valley.

The talent is here. Hi Tech has moved manufacturing out for the most part, but the tech is committed to the valley.
FYI - Google bought a huge area of older San Jose; they re building structures that will dwarf the Apple Spaceship.

When will it stop? Crash? Who knows?
I got news for you... You ain't seen nuthin' yet. 5G is a game changer. 3nm tech node baby!
By the way, to make real money, you have to be in charge of, or develop, something mission critical.
Then you get the golden handcuffs.


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Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: dareo] #5325621 01/17/20 08:17 PM
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PandaBear Offline
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Originally Posted by dareo
If you did relocate your giant tech company it would be a bit harder for your existing talent to jump ship. They'd have to move.


Not really, that's not how it works.

What makes you think Amazon finally opened offices in Silicon Valley instead of staying in Seattle? They tried to force people to move, but they can't always find people (other than Canadians wishing to be close to the border, and people leaving California because they haven't bought a house yet). The same goes for Google opening office in Seattle.

People move around companies, not relocating with a job that they have no loyalty to.

BTW, Walmart throw in the towel and had to open their lab in Sunnyvale too, they can't hire people to do it in Arkansas. People aren't interested in going there.

Talking about Uncle Jeff, that guy is not cheap and stupid, he pays well if he knows he can make money from you. Anonymous insider close to the source of the 2nd HQ discussion in Blind (a work place social app) on Amazon's employee forum said, that the decision is not based on cost of living (i.e. housing cost, labor cost), but tech talent pool, and local universities. In other word, they are opening new offices in other tech hubs so they can pouch talents, not trying to move to a low cost of living places and force people to move and then cut their pays. The final candidates are rumored to be NYC, Arlington VA, Austin, Los Angeles (mainly due to Hollywood), and Boston. I'm sorry to tell you but none of them are cheap and none of them are about forcing people to move there.

This is not a US only situation, in Japan most of the top talents are in Tokyo and Tokyo gets bigger and the small towns in the rest of the nation die off, Detroit style.

Last edited by PandaBear; 01/17/20 08:30 PM.

"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: PandaBear] #5325671 01/17/20 09:12 PM
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PandaBear,

A big reason Amazon has been expanding elsewhere is that Seattle has pushed for a head tax on employees. Amazon is actually moving a lot of people out of Seattle and into Bellevue across the lake.

There is a 50-60 story building going up downtown Seattle that Amazon was going to occupy the vast majority of. They have since pulled out of that deal. Those people will go to Bellevue.

It’s a story most people outside of Amazon and Seattle might not know of.


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Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: dareo] #5327619 01/20/20 09:24 AM
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JHZR2 Offline
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Originally Posted by PandaBear
Includes approved shovel-ready plans for a beautiful redevelopment of the massive lot into 5 units

That's why it is worth $1M, the approved shovel ready plan means you don't need to deal with the messy public hearing right?


That’s what I was thinking. This is priced as a turnkey construction project that yields high rental income in an upcoming area.



Originally Posted by dareo
Originally Posted by PandaBear
Originally Posted by dareo
what a crazy price. last year i paid less than 1/10th per square foot and got 3.3x the land.


You probably get paid 1/4 as much as the potential buyer/renter of the finished home too, that's why it is 1/10th per square foot and 1/3 the total price. Real estate is all about location and local income level.


Median household income for my county 75k. "The typical San Francisco household makes about $96,677 each year." 2018 census bureau.

All that real estate is just grossly overpriced.


There can be lots of folks making sky high bucks to offset the group making or showing zero.

Thing I don’t understand is just how much the average person in tech makes. Because these million dollar deals seemingly would make them house rich and entirely poor real quick without a decent income. Case study: How much does a mid level tech person make? $350k/yr?

Then take something like 50% away from all taxes (federal, state, ss/medicare, sales), and then you’ve got maybe $14k/yr.

A $1.5M home, 30% down, 30 years at 3.8% results in something like $7600/month, assuming $24k/yr property tax.

So someone with what I’d say is a good paying job, $350k/yr, is paying out half of their take home on a mortgage, granted they still would have $7k/month for other things. Adjust calculations from there. That’s a lot of free cash.

Re: Only asking $1029 sq/ft [Re: JHZR2] #5327828 01/20/20 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
PandaBear,

A big reason Amazon has been expanding elsewhere is that Seattle has pushed for a head tax on employees. Amazon is actually moving a lot of people out of Seattle and into Bellevue across the lake.

There is a 50-60 story building going up downtown Seattle that Amazon was going to occupy the vast majority of. They have since pulled out of that deal. Those people will go to Bellevue.

It’s a story most people outside of Amazon and Seattle might not know of.


Yes, I remember that part about Amazon freezing development suddenly when the Seattle tax might be a real thing and then all of a sudden Jeff pulled out of the development deal. Another reason is they ran out of people willing to move to Seattle at the current cost of living. Their quota for putting people in performance improvement plan (warning: you will be fired, we are doing this because we don't want you to have any ground on fighting a lawsuit) means they need to have a constant pool of employees coming in and going out, and if you don't have fresh meat you need to go to another metro to cycle through other companies' employees. This is why they favor other large tech hubs despite high cost of living: they don't want to be the only employer in a cheap town, they want to be one employer that can snatch the cheapest 10% out of the top 20% workforce in the metro, and they need to have other companies to snatch from and dispose to.

Originally Posted by JHZR2

There can be lots of folks making sky high bucks to offset the group making or showing zero.

Thing I don’t understand is just how much the average person in tech makes. Because these million dollar deals seemingly would make them house rich and entirely poor real quick without a decent income. Case study: How much does a mid level tech person make? $350k/yr?

Then take something like 50% away from all taxes (federal, state, ss/medicare, sales), and then you’ve got maybe $14k/yr.

A $1.5M home, 30% down, 30 years at 3.8% results in something like $7600/month, assuming $24k/yr property tax.

So someone with what I’d say is a good paying job, $350k/yr, is paying out half of their take home on a mortgage, granted they still would have $7k/month for other things. Adjust calculations from there. That’s a lot of free cash.


This. The amount people pay for housing among tech hub is never the 28%, and a lot of them aren't doing 30% down. Regarding to pay, it can go all over the place depends on the company, the stock market, the guy's bargaining power, and luck. Example: one of my new grad coworker joined an "old tech" company that I'm currently in, and got paid like 100k out of school, he was not happy because his friends were all making 120-140k and then after a year he started interviewing around, got 2 offers, and used them to bid on each other, and finally landed in a company that pays him 200k. He then ask me when will he make 300k and then I have to tell him it is hard to say, because sadly after 20 years in old tech I'm still not making that much, so all I can offer to tell him is to keep interview skill sharp and stay in new tech instead of old tech.

Even among tech not everyone can afford to buy, a lot of the people in unicorn got lucky and exited (IPO, company sold, so their paper money RSU are now worth cash despite a discount), and they finally has a big chunk of money for down payment. So you have a bunch of techies that make 200k (I think that's likely the average mid level) and the 20% of them that got startup exit, pay tax (sucks because it is not capital gain and you have to pay all that in one year instead of spreading among 4), and your income discounted for the loan because RSU cash out is a one time event, then you can finally started to buy something. Yes it sucks, that's why the new trend is to stay away from startup because this is no longer the 90s, IPO won't get you a paid off house, and your exit may only break even compare to working for FANG in a stable job for the same amount on average after all that risky maneuver.

Yes, the tech scene is a bit messed up right now, and maybe a bubble, and definitely the SF Bay Area is overpriced, but the market is the market and companies aren't moving because it is hard to move a whole tech hub. You can expand but it is not a guarantee you can move your project around and not fail (let alone be a success).


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
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