We like our Toyota's, and BMW's.
Toyota is recalling 2018 2019 vehicles for fuel pump
- Thread starter JimPghPA
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Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
BMW has also had fuel pump failures, some of them leading to recalls. One BMW model even had fuel pump failures that required replacement of the fuel tank at $9k, but was never recalled.
Which BMW is that and that failure is not on a diesel due to fuel?
BMW had HPFP problems, but pump is around $500 and actually BMW NA has seep discounts on those pumps.
Early to mid 2000's 3 Series SULEV models (California emission system cars). The fuel pump and fuel filter were built into the fuel tank, they were not removable, and required replacement of the fuel tank when either one failed. I ran across one of these cars about 10 years ago. It was a $9000 repair back then. The replacement price has dropped to about $7500 P&L. The BMW community has devised a hack for this, substituting non-SULEV car parts, but it is illegal to do it. I can't figure out what the BMW engineers were thinking about when they did this. The PCV valve built into the valve cover was another one of their idiotic ideas.
The number of SULEV E46 I would say is minuscule compared to this. Slo_Town might chime in on this subject.
As for PCV on valve cover, I know, idiotic, though, less work than 3 spark plugs on my Sienna.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wag123
BMW has also had fuel pump failures, some of them leading to recalls. One BMW model even had fuel pump failures that required replacement of the fuel tank at $9k, but was never recalled.
Which BMW is that and that failure is not on a diesel due to fuel?
BMW had HPFP problems, but pump is around $500 and actually BMW NA has seep discounts on those pumps.
Early to mid 2000's 3 Series SULEV models (California emission system cars). The fuel pump and fuel filter were built into the fuel tank, they were not removable, and required replacement of the fuel tank when either one failed. I ran across one of these cars about 10 years ago. It was a $9000 repair back then. The replacement price has dropped to about $7500 P&L. The BMW community has devised a hack for this, substituting non-SULEV car parts, but it is illegal to do it. I can't figure out what the BMW engineers were thinking about when they did this. The PCV valve built into the valve cover was another one of their idiotic ideas.
The number of SULEV E46 I would say is minuscule compared to this. Slo_Town might chime in on this subject.
As for PCV on valve cover, I know, idiotic, though, less work than 3 spark plugs on my Sienna.
Originally Posted by 02SE
We like our Toyota's, and BMW's.
Yes we do, but only one still is true to their calling.
So what's happened to BMW from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s to now? A few things — none of them good.
We like our Toyota's, and BMW's.
Yes we do, but only one still is true to their calling.
So what's happened to BMW from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s to now? A few things — none of them good.
Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
Originally Posted by 02SE
We like our Toyota's, and BMW's.
Yes we do, but only one still is true to their calling.
So what's happened to BMW from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s to now? A few things — none of them good.
LOL, What is that calling? I really wanna hear this.
Originally Posted by 02SE
We like our Toyota's, and BMW's.
Yes we do, but only one still is true to their calling.
So what's happened to BMW from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s to now? A few things — none of them good.
LOL, What is that calling? I really wanna hear this.
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Here's what is being reported by the NHTSA:
Quote
Jan 13,2020
Manufacturer Recall Number: 20TB02
NHTSA Recall Number#: AWAITING
Recall Status: Recall Incomplete, remedy not yet available
Summary
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This may result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted.
Safety Risk
If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.
Remedy
Toyota is currently investigating this issue and will be developing a remedy. When the remedy is available, it will be free of charge to vehicle owners.
Quote
Jan 13,2020
Manufacturer Recall Number: 20TB02
NHTSA Recall Number#: AWAITING
Recall Status: Recall Incomplete, remedy not yet available
Summary
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This may result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted.
Safety Risk
If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.
Remedy
Toyota is currently investigating this issue and will be developing a remedy. When the remedy is available, it will be free of charge to vehicle owners.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
expect a video from scotty by the time you get home from work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhjdhMLZf4s
don't worry he's on it!
although he's a click baiter, but he does have insight
expect a video from scotty by the time you get home from work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhjdhMLZf4s
don't worry he's on it!
although he's a click baiter, but he does have insight
Originally Posted by edyvw
The number of SULEV E46 I would say is minuscule compared to this. Slo_Town might chime in on this subject.
As for PCV on valve cover, I know, idiotic, though, less work than 3 spark plugs on my Sienna.
Toyota does not corner the market on difficult-to-replace spark plugs, and NO, the rear spark plugs on a transverse V/6 Toyota do NOT cost as much to replace as the BMW valve cover with built-in PCV valve does. Aside from high parts cost for the valve cover, the labor cost is about the same for both jobs.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Here's what is being reported by the NHTSA:
Quote
Jan 13,2020
Manufacturer Recall Number: 20TB02
NHTSA Recall Number#: AWAITING
Recall Status: Recall Incomplete, remedy not yet available
Summary
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This may result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted.
Safety Risk
If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.
Remedy
Toyota is currently investigating this issue and will be developing a remedy. When the remedy is available, it will be free of charge to vehicle owners.
So, it IS the low pressure fuel pump. My guess was wrong.
The number of SULEV E46 I would say is minuscule compared to this. Slo_Town might chime in on this subject.
As for PCV on valve cover, I know, idiotic, though, less work than 3 spark plugs on my Sienna.
Toyota does not corner the market on difficult-to-replace spark plugs, and NO, the rear spark plugs on a transverse V/6 Toyota do NOT cost as much to replace as the BMW valve cover with built-in PCV valve does. Aside from high parts cost for the valve cover, the labor cost is about the same for both jobs.
Originally Posted by 02SE
Here's what is being reported by the NHTSA:
Quote
Jan 13,2020
Manufacturer Recall Number: 20TB02
NHTSA Recall Number#: AWAITING
Recall Status: Recall Incomplete, remedy not yet available
Summary
The subject vehicles are equipped with a low-pressure fuel pump which may stop operating. If this were to occur, warning lights and messages may be displayed on the instrument panel, and the engine may run rough. This may result in a vehicle stall, and the vehicle may be unable to be restarted.
Safety Risk
If a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash.
Remedy
Toyota is currently investigating this issue and will be developing a remedy. When the remedy is available, it will be free of charge to vehicle owners.
So, it IS the low pressure fuel pump. My guess was wrong.
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Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
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Originally Posted by KrisZ
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
Really? Not to pick a fight or anything but people were killed and thats ok because of customer loyalty and profits? I disagree. I would argue that most people would disagree with your statement, especially the family's of those who were killed. And again, that being said with all due respect.
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
Really? Not to pick a fight or anything but people were killed and thats ok because of customer loyalty and profits? I disagree. I would argue that most people would disagree with your statement, especially the family's of those who were killed. And again, that being said with all due respect.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
Really? Not to pick a fight or anything but people were killed and thats ok because of customer loyalty and profits? I disagree. I would argue that most people would disagree with your statement, especially the family's of those who were killed. And again, that being said with all due respect.
I think KrisZ was speaking sarcasm
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
Really? Not to pick a fight or anything but people were killed and thats ok because of customer loyalty and profits? I disagree. I would argue that most people would disagree with your statement, especially the family's of those who were killed. And again, that being said with all due respect.
I think KrisZ was speaking sarcasm
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
Really? Not to pick a fight or anything but people were killed and thats ok because of customer loyalty and profits? I disagree. I would argue that most people would disagree with your statement, especially the family's of those who were killed. And again, that being said with all due respect.
You misunderstood.
A normal human being would truly be remorseful if they found their actions had caused human life. But we're not talking about normal human beings here.
Japanese are less into theatrics, so oftentimes they don't act out what the unwashed masses expect of them.
Western world is quite different, it's all about appearances.
In either case, none of these people feel any remorse, except for being caught.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Why be remoresful for something that is being rewarded with customer loyalty, good sale numbers and super high profits?
Really? Not to pick a fight or anything but people were killed and thats ok because of customer loyalty and profits? I disagree. I would argue that most people would disagree with your statement, especially the family's of those who were killed. And again, that being said with all due respect.
You misunderstood.
A normal human being would truly be remorseful if they found their actions had caused human life. But we're not talking about normal human beings here.
Japanese are less into theatrics, so oftentimes they don't act out what the unwashed masses expect of them.
Western world is quite different, it's all about appearances.
In either case, none of these people feel any remorse, except for being caught.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
Last edited:
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- Messages
- 1,237
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out, or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out, or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
Finally, Toyota is not better than anyone else. Thank you.
Though to make Toyota do recall on something that is not safety issue is pure miracle.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
Finally, Toyota is not better than anyone else. Thank you.
Though to make Toyota do recall on something that is not safety issue is pure miracle.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out, or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
When you can get away selling microwaves for cars, and make huge profit out of it, you can also get away with floor mats. And even these "updated" floor mats that they sell now are flimsy at best. I got two years ago brand new rubber mats in dealership, and quality is on par with average one in Walmart. Not to mention, that basically they secured only driver one, others are secured by gravity.
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out, or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
When you can get away selling microwaves for cars, and make huge profit out of it, you can also get away with floor mats. And even these "updated" floor mats that they sell now are flimsy at best. I got two years ago brand new rubber mats in dealership, and quality is on par with average one in Walmart. Not to mention, that basically they secured only driver one, others are secured by gravity.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
One good thing that came from Toyota's unintended acceleration problem is that Toyota is now VERY quick to recall their vehicles whenever a safety defect has been discovered, this being one example.
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
One good thing that came from Toyota's unintended acceleration problem is that Toyota is now VERY quick to recall their vehicles whenever a safety defect has been discovered, this being one example.
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Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
The difference is how recalls from marques that aren't Toyota are played.
Ford issues a recall for the cruise control switch fire, people freak out, call Ford garbage...etc. Message boards like this one are lit up with anti-Ford rhetoric about how their uncle's friend's grandfather's great aunt was run over by a Model T and they've sworn they'll never buy a Ford!
versus
Toyota, after a class action lawsuit is levied against them, finally acknowledges that they've been using garbage frames that they didn't adequately QC and issues a recall. Folks are fawning over them like they are the 2nd coming of [censored] and praising their exemplary morality, completely ignoring it took a huge CAL to even get them to acknowledge the issue!
it's like no matter how much of a complete fecal parade Toyota puts on, their fanbase is in the wings waiting to jump out and celebrate something as an achievement. Mention the Toyota sludge epidemic? Well my 1998 Camry went 20 billion miles with only needing tires, I never even needed to change the brakes!
Contrast that to any other brand, there's no comparison. Toyota gets more free passes on things that would have other brands bashed until the end of time. It's truly bizarre to watch
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
The difference is how recalls from marques that aren't Toyota are played.
Ford issues a recall for the cruise control switch fire, people freak out, call Ford garbage...etc. Message boards like this one are lit up with anti-Ford rhetoric about how their uncle's friend's grandfather's great aunt was run over by a Model T and they've sworn they'll never buy a Ford!
versus
Toyota, after a class action lawsuit is levied against them, finally acknowledges that they've been using garbage frames that they didn't adequately QC and issues a recall. Folks are fawning over them like they are the 2nd coming of [censored] and praising their exemplary morality, completely ignoring it took a huge CAL to even get them to acknowledge the issue!
it's like no matter how much of a complete fecal parade Toyota puts on, their fanbase is in the wings waiting to jump out and celebrate something as an achievement. Mention the Toyota sludge epidemic? Well my 1998 Camry went 20 billion miles with only needing tires, I never even needed to change the brakes!
Contrast that to any other brand, there's no comparison. Toyota gets more free passes on things that would have other brands bashed until the end of time. It's truly bizarre to watch
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
One good thing that came from Toyota's unintended acceleration problem is that Toyota is now VERY quick to recall their vehicles whenever a safety defect has been discovered, this being one example.
What is very quick? Are they quicker than anyone else? There is no doubt that we had and will have in future car and other companies that will try to scam the system (just look Boeing) but let's not turn this into fairytale.
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
I can tell you that my previous F150 was involved in the recall about the brake master cylinder sensor recall that was burning down people's homes. What is different about that recall vs the Toyota "floor mat" recall is Ford did not cover it up. A recall notice was sent and repair was made, I was fortunate to not have my home catch on fire. I was not alive for the pinto and panther recalls so I cant speak for how Ford executives handled themselves in the media before I was born. My point was as I was watching the coverage, watching him throw up his hands in confusion to why he was being questioned really made it appear that he really dident give a fvck at all. Yes, I own Fords but this is NOT a Ford vs Toyota thread, and I understand that ALL companies, foreign or domestic will always put out a product that has potential to kill people.
Also to KrisZ's post I dident realize it was sarcasm.
One good thing that came from Toyota's unintended acceleration problem is that Toyota is now VERY quick to recall their vehicles whenever a safety defect has been discovered, this being one example.
What is very quick? Are they quicker than anyone else? There is no doubt that we had and will have in future car and other companies that will try to scam the system (just look Boeing) but let's not turn this into fairytale.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
The difference is how recalls from marques that aren't Toyota are played.
Ford issues a recall for the cruise control switch fire, people freak out, call Ford garbage...etc. Message boards like this one are lit up with anti-Ford rhetoric about how their uncle's friend's grandfather's great aunt was run over by a Model T and they've sworn they'll never buy a Ford!
versus
Toyota, after a class action lawsuit is levied against them, finally acknowledges that they've been using garbage frames that they didn't adequately QC and issues a recall. Folks are fawning over them like they are the 2nd coming of [censored] and praising their exemplary morality, completely ignoring it took a huge CAL to even get them to acknowledge the issue!
it's like no matter how much of a complete fecal parade Toyota puts on, their fanbase is in the wings waiting to jump out and celebrate something as an achievement. Mention the Toyota sludge epidemic? Well my 1998 Camry went 20 billion miles with only needing tires, I never even needed to change the brakes!
Contrast that to any other brand, there's no comparison. Toyota gets more free passes on things that would have other brands bashed until the end of time. It's truly bizarre to watch
Wait, there is still time in this thread to blame suppliers.
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
Lets not forget the "floor mat" recall cover up. Toyota's faulty software holding wide open throttle and killing people was covered up by floor mats. It was proved in court they tried to cover up this issue, personally I think Toyota should have had more than a fine, the government should have banned them from selling those specific models for a certain length of time, maybe a period of 1-2 years possibly longer. I remember seeing Kiichiro Toyoda on the news in court being grilled, he appeared to no give a F and looked as if he was questioning why he was even in court. The court had him on the stand because his company covered up a problem that KILLED people. Not that American auto makers never did the same thing, but at least there was some type of remorse. Heck, even VW "appeared" remorseful on TV for the Dieselgate scandal.
I notice that you drive Fords. To your knowledge, did Ford ever display remorse for all of the people who were burned alive in rear-ended Pintos, or people who died in houses that burned down when their F150s caught fire in their garages, or Explorers that rolled over and killed people whenever a tire blew-out (they blamed Firestone, but I have had many blow-outs over the years and none of them ever caused a rollover), or Ford's own unintended acceleration problem with Panthers that killed several people? I can name MANY MORE instances with Ford, and with EVERY other auto manufacturer. If every auto manufacturer was forbidden to sell vehicles for 1 or 2 years because of something like this, there very quickly wouldn't be any new vehicles available to purchase.
NO auto manufacturers are immune to selling vehicles that have defects that kill people!
The difference is how recalls from marques that aren't Toyota are played.
Ford issues a recall for the cruise control switch fire, people freak out, call Ford garbage...etc. Message boards like this one are lit up with anti-Ford rhetoric about how their uncle's friend's grandfather's great aunt was run over by a Model T and they've sworn they'll never buy a Ford!
versus
Toyota, after a class action lawsuit is levied against them, finally acknowledges that they've been using garbage frames that they didn't adequately QC and issues a recall. Folks are fawning over them like they are the 2nd coming of [censored] and praising their exemplary morality, completely ignoring it took a huge CAL to even get them to acknowledge the issue!
it's like no matter how much of a complete fecal parade Toyota puts on, their fanbase is in the wings waiting to jump out and celebrate something as an achievement. Mention the Toyota sludge epidemic? Well my 1998 Camry went 20 billion miles with only needing tires, I never even needed to change the brakes!
Contrast that to any other brand, there's no comparison. Toyota gets more free passes on things that would have other brands bashed until the end of time. It's truly bizarre to watch
Wait, there is still time in this thread to blame suppliers.
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