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Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: dnewton3] #5266196 11/13/19 03:58 PM
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BillyE Offline
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by BillyE
This has nothing to do with regens.

Actually, it does, per this article where Chevron reps made specific indications regarding regens and DPFs
https://www.trucknews.com/transportation/chevron-unveils-a-lubricants-game-changer/1003095061/




I don't mean to belabor this point, but that article does not mention regens or soot. The article talks about plugging from ash and increasing the service life of the DPF. That's the impact that can be attributed to the oil. You can't possibly burn enough oil to contribute to soot in any meaningful way. Ash on the other hand is not removed in DPF regeneration and builds over hundreds of thousands of miles.

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: BillyE] #5266645 11/14/19 05:11 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by BillyE
This has nothing to do with regens.

Actually, it does, per this article where Chevron reps made specific indications regarding regens and DPFs
https://www.trucknews.com/transportation/chevron-unveils-a-lubricants-game-changer/1003095061/




I don't mean to belabor this point, but that article does not mention regens or soot. The article talks about plugging from ash and increasing the service life of the DPF. That's the impact that can be attributed to the oil. You can't possibly burn enough oil to contribute to soot in any meaningful way. Ash on the other hand is not removed in DPF regeneration and builds over hundreds of thousands of miles.

DPFs clog with PM (particulate matter); that is comprised of soot and ash.
The regen cycles are generated by the dP (pressure drop) across the DPF filter. The more clogged it is, the more restrictive it becomes, and therefore the more often the system will call for a regen cycle.

And I quote from the article:
"Delo 600 ADF significantly reduces the rate of DPF clogging, extending DPF service life by up to 2.5 times, and bringing a 3% fuel economy retention advantage over the life of the equipment, delivering significant savings to customers."

Now I quote myself from a previous post:
"If this lube product, along with things like FBCs (fuel borne catalysts) aimed at reducing PM (particulate matter) from the combustion process, all work towards lowering the ash and soot content in the exhaust stream, they could induce a significant improvement in reduced regen cycles."

I never said that the new lube will reduce soot. I said that if the new lube is combined with the use of a FBC, the two together would reduce both ash AND soot. (the lube reduces ash; the FBC reduces soot).

Both conditions (less ash, less soot) are beneficial in that they clog the DPF at lower contamination rates. Less contamination means fewer regens. I might agree with you that regens do not burn away ash. But regens are initiated by the dP across the filter, and when there is less ash present, there is less clogging, and therefore lower dP; hence less regens.

You imply that the new lube will not reduce regens. According to the article, that is untrue. And the reason it's untrue is because less ash (a key characteristic of the new lube) will mean less clogging of the DPF, which has the effect of fewer regens.

In short, I agree with you that the new lube will not reduce soot; it does, however, reduce ash.
I disagree with you that the new lube will not reduce regens, because ash IS a contributor to DPF clogging, and therefore less ash has the effect of less regens, and Chevron clearly has the information stated in that manner.

The reduced regens (due to less ash) have resulted in lifecycle improvements of 2.5x, and less fuel consumption (3%; primarily because of less fuel burned due to fewer regens). NOTE: they even call it "3% fuel economy retention". Why "retention"? Because that fuel economy loss is associated directly to the fuel burned in the regen cycle.

Less ash = fewer regens = better retained fuel economy.




Last edited by dnewton3; 11/14/19 05:22 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: SavagePatch] #5266724 11/14/19 07:34 AM
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^ YES - exactly. Well articulated.

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: tundraotto] #5266920 11/14/19 10:12 AM
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My point is that Chevron is not making a claim as to fewer DPF regenerations. Your point is that in the event of DPF plugging failure, more regenerations may be initiated by the ECM. I understand that but instead I look at it as this new oil is purported to allow a longer life of the DPF before this happens. This is also how Chevron has phrased it.

The reason I'm choosing to say it this way is that an oil change to this new oil cannot by itself change the regen cycle to any significant extent. It probably will change the regen cycle after you have run the oil for dozens of OCIs and have not serviced the DPF. I guess I started from the assumption that the DPF would be serviced according to the manufacturer recommendations, which are generally specified at an interval so as to not impact performance (regens or otherwise). This oil would allow the manufacturer to extend that DPF service interval, or possibly allow for a redesign of the DPF unit itself.

However you want to state it, do we agree that a single oil change with this new oil will not have any significant impact on fuel economy or regen cycle, within that single OCI?

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: BillyE] #5266951 11/14/19 10:50 AM
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BBDartCA Offline
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Ash is a byproduct from soot regeneration.


Former lube industry insider...now vehicle OEM engineering insider.
Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: BBDartCA] #5267208 11/14/19 02:30 PM
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BillyE Offline
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Originally Posted by BBDartCA
Ash is a byproduct from soot regeneration.


It is the inoxidizable and nonvolatile remnant. Mostly metallic and for the most part originates from lubricant additives like Calcium and Zinc. Soot is the typical term for carbonaceous material that combusted in the regen cycle. If you want to say ash is a byproduct of soot regeneration, you are lumping this carbonaceous material and the metallic material into one thing and calling it soot. It's just semantics but I think we agree on the concept.

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: BillyE] #5267790 11/15/19 05:56 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Originally Posted by BillyE
My point is that Chevron is not making a claim as to fewer DPF regenerations. Your point is that in the event of DPF plugging failure, more regenerations may be initiated by the ECM. I understand that but instead I look at it as this new oil is purported to allow a longer life of the DPF before this happens. This is also how Chevron has phrased it.

The reason I'm choosing to say it this way is that an oil change to this new oil cannot by itself change the regen cycle to any significant extent. It probably will change the regen cycle after you have run the oil for dozens of OCIs and have not serviced the DPF. I guess I started from the assumption that the DPF would be serviced according to the manufacturer recommendations, which are generally specified at an interval so as to not impact performance (regens or otherwise). This oil would allow the manufacturer to extend that DPF service interval, or possibly allow for a redesign of the DPF unit itself.

However you want to state it, do we agree that a single oil change with this new oil will not have any significant impact on fuel economy or regen cycle, within that single OCI?


You are correct; in that link to that article, Chevron did not specifically state the lube would reduce regens. They stated that it would clog the DPF less. They also state it will retain fuel consumption.

As I have already stated, the dP across the DPF triggers regens. The less it clogs, the lower the dP, the fewer the regens. Also, the fewer regens, the less fuel consumed.

I'm smart enough to read in-between the lines.

I would agree the sensible gain in improvement will likely come after a few OCIs. How many? I don't know because they didn't say. But a 3% gain in fuel retention and 2.5 longer span in clogging is worth the committment to using the lube. And again, if you pair it with a FBC, there's probably a very good chance one can really cut down on the regens and extend DPF lifecycle. If you only drive your Dmax or PSD 4k miles a year, you probably won't see much advantage very soon. But if you use the diesel every day, I suspect the advantages will reveal themselves reasonably quickly.

Last edited by dnewton3; 11/15/19 06:04 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: tundraotto] #5267816 11/15/19 06:56 AM
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SavagePatch Offline OP
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Originally Posted by tundraotto
^ YES - exactly. Well articulated.


+1

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: SavagePatch] #5268224 11/15/19 02:23 PM
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I think in this day and age it is certainly possible to come up with better wear and anti oxidant additives than what have been used in the past. I applaud Delo-Chevron for trying. Advances are being made in every technology daily nowadays. I will be anxiously waiting for OCI’s from the Major Engine manufacturers. I’ve seen personally the difference engine oil can make in DPF longevity.


Jack of All Trades. Master of some.
Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: dnewton3] #5268411 11/15/19 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dnewton3

I'm smart enough to read in-between the lines.


Me too. I see how it goes here.

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: BillyE] #5291253 12/11/19 09:15 AM
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I happened to notice that the product data sheets are now listed for both 10W30 and 15W40 Delo 600 ADF. (I will let someone else can provide a link for them here). 3.6 HT/HS & 4.4 HT/HS respectively.

I have a 2016 Chevy Colorado, with the 2.8L Diesel engine by VM Motori. Manual calls for a Dexos2 5W30 motor oil (although in Australia, 5W40 is recommended for the same engine).
I am thinking about switching to the 10W30 Delo 600 ADF (out of warranty), because it appears to be a MORE robust, LOW ash, alternative to the standard fare Dexos2 oils (Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 / Pennzoil Euro L 5W30).

Would making that motor oil switch be an upgrade?

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: Best F100] #5291844 12/11/19 08:06 PM
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SteveG4 Offline
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Originally Posted by Best F100
I happened to notice that the product data sheets are now listed for both 10W30 and 15W40 Delo 600 ADF. (I will let someone else can provide a link for them here). 3.6 HT/HS & 4.4 HT/HS respectively.

I have a 2016 Chevy Colorado, with the 2.8L Diesel engine by VM Motori. Manual calls for a Dexos2 5W30 motor oil (although in Australia, 5W40 is recommended for the same engine).
I am thinking about switching to the 10W30 Delo 600 ADF (out of warranty), because it appears to be a MORE robust, LOW ash, alternative to the standard fare Dexos2 oils (Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 / Pennzoil Euro L 5W30).

Would making that motor oil switch be an upgrade?

This revolutionary oil is really new.

Speak with Chevron about its suitability in your application. If suitable, ask about an oil analyzer that has experience testing this oil in the real world, i.e. where to send your oil sample after a few thousand miles.

Good luck. Please report back.

Last edited by SteveG4; 12/11/19 08:06 PM.

Somewhere between Alaska and Wisconsin...
2006 Silverado LT Crew Cab 4WD & 2013 Equinox AWD
Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: SavagePatch] #5323247 01/15/20 09:13 AM
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SavagePatch Offline OP
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Has anyone seen this in the wild yet? I like the price point "between synthetic blend and synthetic".

https://www.ccjdigital.com/chevron-debuts-lower-ash-diesel-engine-oil/

Screenshot_20200115-044707.jpgScreenshot_20200115-045018.jpg
Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: SavagePatch] #5323395 01/15/20 11:48 AM
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userfriendly Offline
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Zn free? Then it should be OK to use in engines that have silver bearings such as EMD 2-strokes.

Re: *NEW* DELO 600 ADF [Re: SavagePatch] #5323461 01/15/20 12:51 PM
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My local Chevron distributor can get it (or has it), in drums or pails. That is too large a quantity for my personal usage.

I would be willing to give Delo 600 ADF a try in the the 10W30 viscosity (if I could get it in gallon jugs). My vehicle is a 2016 Chevy Colorado with the 2.8L diesel that calls for a 5W30 Dexos2 lubricant.

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