Straight 30w in Hot Climates

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Ha ha, I'm expecting to see you gents report 30 weight in your oil change reports. See you in 200,000 miles.

Still nothing to add rather than snarkiness ???

Facts ???

If there was a Dexos 2 SAE30, or synthetic 10W30, it would be the only thing in my garage...

 

[userfriendly]

Shannow; You can post my SAE 40 LML Duramax UOA if they want facts.

Road trip to Hinton, Alberta tomorrow. Shows -42C overnight in both Edmonton & Hinton.

Edit. I'm taking the company truck. No place for a Diesel in that weather.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by SR5
Look at this, two Pennzoil SAE 30 monogrades, first one is API SN and the second is API CF/SF. The first is dated 2015, the second 2016. Both full detergent monogrades.

(Pennzoil SAE30 SN)

(Pennzoil SAE30 API SF/CF)

Compare their Properties:

API
SN
CF/SF

Pour Point (D97)
-30C
-9C

Flash Point
232C (D93)
238C (D92)

KV100 (D445)
11.4 cSt
11.03 cSt

KV40 (D445)
98.0 cSt
98.56 cSt

VI (D2270)
105
96

The big difference is in the Pour Point -30 C for SN and -9 C for SF.

I think what we are looking at here is an old Group I monograde (SF and -9C) verses a modern Group II monograde (SN and -30C).

We need to realise that these new SAE30's are very different from the old school stuff our grandparents used.
That SN oil is likely good year around for a lot of the US. I was using Delo 15w-30 in the coldest temps(low single digits F) I've ever been in. The truck started normally in the mornings. The cold performance of SN 30 is probably pretty close to that Delo. It was actually cold enough that one of the orings on the radiator hoses started leaking. Would seal when it warmed up. Changed it when I got back to FL.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by SR5
Nice work 4WD
Ya know it ain't often 4wd does work period... Much less nice work.... So this is a very note worthy event... Mark this down on the calendar

I nabbed some of that oil myself Captain

Originally Posted by 4WD
BB, Are you back on that reverse smoke mask again ? 🤪

Maybe its medicinal 4WD

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Ha ha, I'm expecting to see you gents report 30 weight in your oil change reports. See you in 200,000 miles.

Still nothing to add rather than snarkiness ???

Facts ???

If there was a Dexos 2 SAE30, or synthetic 10W30, it would be the only thing in my garage...


Don't mean to be snarky. I've standing down, onward to other things.

Please go ahead and use a single weight oil. I'm looking forward to you posting it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Please go ahead and use a single weight oil. I'm looking forward to you posting it.

I'm not sure what you're expecting to see, that someone has used it or are you waiting for them to post a UOA? If the latter then the UOA will not show anything that determines performance. Or do you think you will see something that will?

It will behave just like any other appropriately rated oil in that engine, which is all a UOA ever shows.

 

[4WD]

It must be …

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Please go ahead and use a single weight oil. I'm looking forward to you posting it.

I'm not sure what you're expecting to see, that someone has used it or are you waiting for them to post a UOA? If the latter then the UOA will not show anything that determines performance. Or do you think you will see something that will?

It will behave just like any other appropriately rated oil in that engine, which is all a UOA ever shows.[/quote

I think there were some impressions made that would require further explanations. Mr. Shannow does not run single weight motor oil even though he lives in a hot environment. I thought he would, seeing he has a strong conviction towards it.

Mr. Kaschachn, you left the impression that there were auto manufacturers that spec single grade oil. A list would be good.

Nope. I don't accept someone's UOA's as amazing evidence that single grade is the way to go.

And FWD, you aren't really going to run that lawn mower oil in your Chevy, are you? But thanks for posting it.

Not trying to be a snot, but really, I'm getting it from all sides about the virtue of single grades but I haven't seen anyone step up to the plate.

 

[ad244]

This is the UOA I was thinking back to...

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-30-5-515-miles-w-tbn-tan-pc#Post4464853

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Mr. Shannow does not run single weight motor oil even though he lives in a hot environment. I thought he would, seeing he has a strong conviction towards it.

I have quite recently...and 25W-x as well...but as I SAID...if there was one with Dexos 2...it would be all that's in my shed...

You still haven't explained your position on why an SAE30 with the correct specs would be inferior to a 5W30, just snippy smart alec comments...

 

[4WD]

If I'm FWD ? I have Briggs 5w30 synthetic in the mower.
The SAE30 is a 5k spike fluid to run Mobil 1 AP longer and offset DI fuel dilution.
(to change the filter dumps one quart).
It's SN Plus …

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by 4WD
If I'm FWD ? I have Briggs 5w30 synthetic in the mower.
The SAE30 is a 5k spike fluid to run Mobil 1 AP longer and offset DI fuel dilution.
(to change the filter dumps one quart).
It's SN Plus …


Thanks 4WD. I was worried you planned to put in the Chevy V-8's straight up. Kind of a cool idea.

 

[4WD]

Dexos 1.2 0W20 in both 5.3L's … despite M1 AP's ability to fight oxidation … ?
Dilution is pollution ...

 

[Snagglefoot]

Shannow, how about if we wait to Kschachn to come up with the list of manufacturers that ask for a single weight motor oil.

Also, no one defined hot climates. Here are three cities that I think are Hot Climates in the USA. Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix. The night time temperatures of those cities today are 36 F, 58 F, 51 F and 42 F. Dallas by the way will be 36 F by the weekend.

None of these temps are anywhere near the CCS limits for a 30 weight oil.

The daily temperature swing is about 20 degrees F, with the posted temps being the minimum. This can be verified on Weatherspark.com. Now if you say winter doesn't count then we can try some other numbers but lets finish off with this.

Almost all the cars in North America come with a multi-viscosity oil. Just for fun, let's assume the average night time temp is 50 F, or 10 degrees C. Go ahead and calculate the viscosity of SAE 30 at 10 degrees C. Then calculate the viscosity of 5W30 at 10 degrees C. Compare the two. Using very rough numbers the SAE 30 would be above 500 cSt. The 5W30 would be less than half of that. I'm thinking the manufacturers see this as more of an advantage then the slightly higher film strength of the SAE 30. They are doing this for better startup conditions, pressuring up cam chain adjusters, VVT systems, and lifters. If you disagree with that, then sorry, go ahead and run SAE 30. Now where is that Kschachn.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I'm thinking the manufacturers see this as more of an advantage then the slightly higher film strength of the SAE 30. They are doing this for better startup conditions, pressuring up cam chain adjusters, VVT systems, and lifters. If you disagree with that, then sorry, go ahead and run SAE 30. Now where is that Kschachn.


You're "thinking"...again...supportinge evidence rather than anecdotal use of logic ?

When the oil is in it's pumpable region...it fills things equally as fast...just like I showed you in your thread that you complained about...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-of-flow-at-low-temperatures#Post5316840

Anyway, I'd use a 2.9 HTHS 20W20 in place of an ILSAC 30 in the first place.

BTW, what is the CCS limits for an SAE30 ???

 

[Silk]

This is the oil recommendation chart for my BMW motorcycle (air cooled, plain bearings, pushrod and non shared sump), most people run a 20W-50 as it covers all the temp ranges you would ride in, some in lower temps will use a 15W-40. SAE 30 covers 0 to 30 C, quite a viscosity drop from 20W-50, so ran this last year as an experiment, from about a low of 5C to maybe 35C in sheltered hot valleys. Exactly what was asked in the original post. No UOA, but temp checks with both temp gun and thermocouple showed a 5 to 10 C drop in temp, depending on where I stopped to check temps. I don't know if I will change to SAE 30, but know it's up to the task, and the manufacturer also knows it's good for the job.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I'm thinking the manufacturers see this as more of an advantage then the slightly higher film strength of the SAE 30. They are doing this for better startup conditions, pressuring up cam chain adjusters, VVT systems, and lifters. If you disagree with that, then sorry, go ahead and run SAE 30. Now where is that Kschachn.


You're "thinking"...again...supportinge evidence rather than anecdotal use of logic ?

When the oil is in it's pumpable region...it fills things equally as fast...just like I showed you in your thread that you complained about...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-of-flow-at-low-temperatures#Post5316840

Anyway, I'd use a 2.9 HTHS 20W20 in place of an ILSAC 30 in the first place.

BTW, what is the CCS limits for an SAE30 ???


Like I said, this is not about CCS. Anyway, your followers can head down to Walmart and get some lawnmower oil. Where is your buddy with the list of manufacturers recommending single weight oils?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Shannow, how about if we wait to Kschachn to come up with the list of manufacturers that ask for a single weight motor oil.

Also, no one defined hot climates. Here are three cities that I think are Hot Climates in the USA. Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix. The night time temperatures of those cities today are 36 F, 58 F, 51 F and 42 F. Dallas by the way will be 36 F by the weekend.

None of these temps are anywhere near the CCS limits for a 30 weight oil.

The daily temperature swing is about 20 degrees F, with the posted temps being the minimum. This can be verified on Weatherspark.com. Now if you say winter doesn't count then we can try some other numbers but lets finish off with this.

Almost all the cars in North America come with a multi-viscosity oil. Just for fun, let's assume the average night time temp is 50 F, or 10 degrees C. Go ahead and calculate the viscosity of SAE 30 at 10 degrees C. Then calculate the viscosity of 5W30 at 10 degrees C. Compare the two. Using very rough numbers the SAE 30 would be above 500 cSt. The 5W30 would be less than half of that. I'm thinking the manufacturers see this as more of an advantage then the slightly higher film strength of the SAE 30. They are doing this for better startup conditions, pressuring up cam chain adjusters, VVT systems, and lifters. If you disagree with that, then sorry, go ahead and run SAE 30. Now where is that Kschachn.

Why do you care about me? If you're posting thoughtful land technical responses to the general thread, why would you care about me? That makes you look more like a troll than a contributing member to Bitog. This is of course where many go on Bitog these days it seems.

Nevertheless, although many manufacturers are now recommending 20-grade oils there are still some that recommend 30-grades (as well as a lot of older cars). An SAE 30 oil is indeed a 30-grade oil since the winter rating is not related to the operating viscosity in the engine, only the cold-weather starting performance. So clearly if your expected ambient temperature allows then a straight-weight oil is obviously appropriate for those applications. I think most everyone in this thread understands that except you and I also think that all you wish to do is continue to perpetuate misinformation for reasons other than ones which are solidly technical.

Proof of this is that many posts back you said:
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
With terrible experimental data. Might as well flip a coin. I'm done with this. Sayonara.

And yet here you still are in this thread.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Like I said, this is not about CCS. Anyway, your followers can head down to Walmart and get some lawnmower oil. Where is your buddy with the list of manufacturers recommending single weight oils?

More goofy comments as opposed to at least making an attempt to grasp reality. "Followers"? "Buddy"? How about making a cogent technical argument instead?
Perhaps you do need to step back from this thread like you indicated earlier.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by Silk
This is the oil recommendation chart for my BMW motorcycle (air cooled, plain bearings, pushrod and non shared sump), most people run a 20W-50 as it covers all the temp ranges you would ride in, some in lower temps will use a 15W-40. SAE 30 covers 0 to 30 C, quite a viscosity drop from 20W-50, so ran this last year as an experiment, from about a low of 5C to maybe 35C in sheltered hot valleys. Exactly what was asked in the original post. No UOA, but temp checks with both temp gun and thermocouple showed a 5 to 10 C drop in temp, depending on where I stopped to check temps. I don't know if I will change to SAE 30, but know it's up to the task, and the manufacturer also knows it's good for the job.

I would think it's more important to you on whether you want a 50 weight, 40 weight or 30 weight oil in your engine because that is the viscosity it will be running at for most of the time. Then if you decided you want a 30 weight you can make the decision on mult-vis vs single vis. I don't think BMW cares what you run. They are not endorsing anything.