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Help out the uninformed concering SAPS #5321546 01/13/20 12:31 PM
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wbwanzer Online Content OP
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I love reading the PCMO forum along with several other forums on BITOG, but I am no where near being in the same league as you folks. Anyway, I keep seeing talk about SAPS. High SAPS, low SAPS and moderate. My first question is, what is SAPS? Second question is, do I want high or low SAPS for my 2019 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6? It's DI but no turbo. Do I even need to be concerned with SAPS? I usually change my own oil and have lately been using AAP CARQUEST in 5W-30, 1DG2, SN Plus. Am I good, SAPS wise?

Thanks

Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321576 01/13/20 01:04 PM
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Doesn't KIA specify an ACEA A5 5W30 oil for that engine? The 3.3L V6 - ex. Castrol Edge 5W30 or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30?

Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321582 01/13/20 01:17 PM
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You don't need to worry. SAPS means SA+P+S: sulphated ash (metal content of the oil), phosphorus (ZDDP content oil of the oil), and sulfur. It affects catalytic converter, oxygen sensor, and particulate filter (both diesel and gasoline) life.

Low-SAPS refers to SA ≤ 0.5%, which is a rare Euro category.

Mid-SAPS refers to SA ≤ 0.8%.

Full-SAPS oils (such as M1 FS (FS for full-SAPS) 0W-40) typically have SA ~ 1.3%.

API SN oils typically have SA = 0.8%, which falls under mid-SAPS.

API CK-4 oils typically have SA ~ 1.0%, which is between mid-SAPS and full-SAPS.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 3,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321585 01/13/20 01:18 PM
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SAPS = Sulfated Ash, Phosphorus, Sulfur. Basically, some key byproducts when the oil burns. And some amount of oil always burns, whether or not that amount is enough to notice on the dipstick.

Lower SAPS oils tend to leave fewer deposits (sulfated ash), have less of a tendency to poison catalytic converters (phosphorus), and can form less acid (sulfur). Those are all very good things.

The downside is that the oil additives that affect SAPS levels tend to be really useful and very effective for the money (e.g. ZDDP for anti-wear). That means lower-SAPS oils involve some performance compromises, and/or they cost a bomb because low-SAPS substitutes for those additives are really expensive. This is why "high SAPS" oils are a thing. They are for applications where you need a really heavy additive package for anti-wear, anti-friction, anti-oxidation, etc., and can accept the higher SAPS levels that tend to come with such additive packs. It's not that the high SAPS level is a good thing. It's still bad. There are just some cases in which the tradeoff is worthwhile.

The main reason to be concerned about SAPS would be if you had a diesel engine with a diesel particulate filter (DPF), or one of the new European cars with gasoline particulate filters (GPFs). Ash deposits clog those particulate filters.

If you don't have a DPF or GPF in your car, which I'm 99.9% sure you don't, then you don't need to worry about SAPS levels per se. Any oil that meets the specs for your car will have SAPS levels in a low enough range. Even lower SAPS levels would still be beneficial in theory, but the cost would be hard to justify and the benefits would be hard to see.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321601 01/13/20 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wbwanzer
I love reading the PCMO forum along with several other forums on BITOG, but I am no where near being in the same league as you folks. Anyway, I keep seeing talk about SAPS. High SAPS, low SAPS and moderate. My first question is, what is SAPS? Second question is, do I want high or low SAPS for my 2019 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6? It's DI but no turbo. Do I even need to be concerned with SAPS? I usually change my own oil and have lately been using AAP CARQUEST in 5W-30, 1DG2, SN Plus. Am I good, SAPS wise?

Thanks


Sulfated ash(SA), phosphorus(P) and sulfur(S) = SAPS.

"SAPS stands for sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur. They comprise a significant portion of a motor oil’s additive content. Sulfated ash is not added to oil; it is the result of additives in the oil burning and creating ash. The additives that can produce ash are most commonly used for total base number (TBN), but also help in other areas, like antioxidancy, anti-wear, cleanliness and soot handling. Phosphorus provides anti-wear properties and further antioxidancy, while sulfur contributes antioxidancy, anti-wear properties and engine cleanliness."


Let amount of sulphur in fuels (gas, diesel) used to be higher so motor oils were typically Full-SAPS. With the introduction of DPF/GPF the amount sulphur in gasoline/diesel had to be significantly reduced so that Mid-Low SAPS oils could be used and consequently wouldn't prematurely foul these emissions components like Full-SAPS would.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321826 01/13/20 05:37 PM
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Triple_Se7en Online Content
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Originally Posted by wbwanzer
I love reading the PCMO forum along with several other forums on BITOG, but I am no where near being in the same league as you folks. Anyway, I keep seeing talk about SAPS. High SAPS, low SAPS and moderate. My first question is, what is SAPS? Second question is, do I want high or low SAPS for my 2019 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6? It's DI but no turbo. Do I even need to be concerned with SAPS? I usually change my own oil and have lately been using AAP CARQUEST in 5W-30, 1DG2, SN Plus. Am I good, SAPS wise?

Thanks

The oil grade and certs posted by you is good-to-go. It's the same that I run. Only difference is I run a major name brand oil, instead of a house/store brand.
You're fine. Just stick close to warranty terms in your owners manual.
thumbsup

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 01/13/20 05:38 PM.

19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Valv Adv. 5w30 / OEM Oil Filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly
20' Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 Multi-port / Pennzoil Gold 5W30 / OEM filter
04' Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 / K&N filter
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321872 01/13/20 06:18 PM
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wbwanzer Online Content OP
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Thanks for the explanations on SAPS. Sounds like I don't need to be concerned with it.

I had always planned to follow Kia's requirements.

Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321879 01/13/20 06:28 PM
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I don't shop SAPs, TBN or Noack. My OCIs are just under 5K and I'm using the most popular name brand oils. I've settled on buying filters that go two OCIs (9k) and stay cold-start quiet throughout the two OCIs.

Keep that Kia marching the same SN Plus / Dexos 1 Gen 2 beat.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 01/13/20 06:30 PM.

19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Valv Adv. 5w30 / OEM Oil Filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly
20' Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 Multi-port / Pennzoil Gold 5W30 / OEM filter
04' Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 / K&N filter
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321887 01/13/20 06:34 PM
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I dont have a GM vehicle or a vehicle requiring Dexos 1 gen2 so if it is SN approved I'll use it. Jot hung up on dexos and any name brand that IS SN is fine. Keep it simple


2009 Toyota Camry LE

161,669 miles

Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic 5w20 Dexos 1 Gen 2 SN+
Fram tough guard 4386 filter
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5321909 01/13/20 06:47 PM
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Most of the current oils I've personally been researching that are D1G2 or D2 are "Mid SAPS" oils. I would stay with that. No need for low, and I'd stay away from high for the good of the Catalytic but in all reality it would have to burn at a pretty descent rate to plug the cat.

Just an anecdote I have personally experienced. I have the same car/engine as you. In an effort to calm a rattling timing chain at startup (I've narrowed it down to the tensioner) I put a Motul Xcess 5w-40 into it. Not only did it essentially do nothing, with all my research I soon found it was a high saps oil with quite a heavy dose of calcium in it. Calcium is found to contribute to intake valve deposits in DI engines. Needless to say that oil is coming out very soon.

Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: 53' Stude] #5322207 01/14/20 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 53' Stude
I dont have a GM vehicle or a vehicle requiring Dexos 1 gen2 so if it is SN approved I'll use it. Jot hung up on dexos and any name brand that IS SN is fine. Keep it simple

Some of us DIT owners here were d1G2 fans early on because it was the first motor oil standard that included a test for LSPI mitigation...today we have SN+ and the Ford WSS-....-B1 specs that also test for LSPI and GF6 is supposed to be coming soon, so it's just one of many to give us some LSPI assurance at this point.


2014 Forester XT, 111000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Help out the uninformed concering SAPS [Re: wbwanzer] #5322228 01/14/20 07:27 AM
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For what it's worth, your car calls for a GF4 API SM or better oil. Just get an API SN rated oil with a "mid saps" makeup and go with that. No need for anything more. SN+ or anything D1G2 is not necessary as it's a big bore naturally aspirated motor. Even TBN doesn't really matter with Kia/Hyundai's rediculous 3250mi/6month OCI.

Last edited by STIcandy; 01/14/20 07:37 AM.
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