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High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? #5321223 01/13/20 03:20 AM
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Navi Offline OP
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My 2nd generation 3.5 liter Ecoboost engine has a dual direct injection / port injectionn setup. What is your thoughts on using a high saps oil with this?

High saps oils seem cheaper and more available than their low saps counterparts. For example Mobil 1 0w40 FS (high saps) vs Mobil 1 0W40 ESP (low saps).

Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321225 01/13/20 03:37 AM
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Thought just a few days ago you would not consider any M1 0w40

Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321226 01/13/20 04:00 AM
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saps are only a problem if you have an internal leak.


Cable ties should hold it
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321283 01/13/20 06:49 AM
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MParr Offline
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Have you thought about a 5W30 VW spec. 504.00/507.00 oil. Many are SN rated. Here is one example.
https://www.kendallmotoroil.com/products/motor-oil/gt-1-euro-motor-oil


2019 VW Tiguan SE 2.0 TSI Now: Castrol Professional OE LL IV 0W20 & OE VW/Mann
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Kendall GT-1 Max 5W30 FS & NAPA Gold 1348
93 Octane Non-Ethanol
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321345 01/13/20 08:29 AM
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Im just using Mobil 1 as an example which everyone can understand. The new formulation Mobil 1 0W40 FS isnt something I would use personally.

Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321347 01/13/20 08:32 AM
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Both of the Mercedes I have owned (2018 C300 w/ 2.0T DI and 2018 GLC43 w/ 3.0TT DI) use high SAPS oils. If memory serves, MB has been using high SAPS with DI and turbocharging for quite some time, though they have recently added GPF (gasoline particulate filter) to their engine lines and are now using lower SAPS oils. I personally would have no issues using it.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge + Mahle]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum + Mann filter]
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321354 01/13/20 08:40 AM
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I think the fear of high SAPS with TGDI is a just fear mongering. I wouldn't worry about it at all. The only thing I'd worry about is the calcium and sodium content. Keep Ca <1500 ppm and no sodium is best. ZDDP is actually a good LSPI quencher, so is MoDTC, so don't be afraid to use an oil high in both.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321355 01/13/20 08:42 AM
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Intake valve carbon build shouldn't be an issue with the dual injection engines.

My only question is if High SAPS would damage the catalytic converter long-term.


2015 Forester XT @ 104k km
Current fill: Pennzoil Euro LX 0w-30 with Fram Ultra XG7317
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321369 01/13/20 09:01 AM
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I think that engine designers have been making strides in reducing LSPI in DIT engines, the Ecoboosts don't seem to have had a special propensity for LSPI damage, and the high ZDDP levels typical in high SAPS 0W40 oils also help to limit LSPI events.
BUT, I would still prefer to run an SN+, d1G2, and/or Ford WSS-....-B1 oil that has been tested for LSPI mitigation in any DIT engine...having my DIT engine recalled for LSPI spooked me. Tougher to find such an oil in 0W40, the FS mentioned above might be a questionable choice given its big calcium dose but the ESP would likely be a good choice.


2014 Forester XT, 111000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321397 01/13/20 09:32 AM
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Why not just stick with the 5w30, as it is recommended from Factory. You live in NYC, it should be able to start up fine.

Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321455 01/13/20 10:49 AM
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I know about cats...expensive...so that alone would make me shy away from full saps.

Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: painfx] #5321459 01/13/20 10:54 AM
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The engine starts fine with any oil.

I think JButch knows my issue with 5W30. He has a turbo direct inject Subaru. Basically my engine and JButchs engine tears the 5W30 viscosity down to a 5W20. As for the Mobil 1 0W40 it also tears that down too which is why I shy away.

There is a short list of oils which it cant tear down too far like these HDEOs. As for the 5W40 you usually end up as a 5W30 viscosity.

Of course Ford says all this is perfectly ok but do you trust their advice or throw in the next grade up.

A new engine costs 10 grand btw...

Last edited by Navi; 01/13/20 10:55 AM.
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: jbutch] #5321471 01/13/20 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jbutch
My only question is if High SAPS would damage the catalytic converter long-term.

How do the European OEMs like Mercedes and BMW do it? Both of my MBs specified it. I believe this concern (in general) is overblown.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge + Mahle]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum + Mann filter]
Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321475 01/13/20 11:12 AM
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They have different specs just like we have our specs. For example VW 505.01, BMW LongLife 04, MB 229.51 etc. The engineers match up the spec to the engine accordingly.

Re: High SAPS and Dual Port/Direct Turbo engines...thoughts? [Re: Navi] #5321478 01/13/20 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Navi
The engine starts fine with any oil.

I think JButch knows my issue with 5W30. He has a turbo direct inject Subaru. Basically my engine and JButchs engine tears the 5W30 viscosity down to a 5W20. As for the Mobil 1 0W40 it also tears that down too which is why I shy away.

There is a short list of oils which it cant tear down too far like these HDEOs. As for the 5W40 you usually end up as a 5W30 viscosity.

Of course Ford says all this is perfectly ok but do you trust their advice or throw in the next grade up.

A new engine costs 10 grand btw...



Never quite made the jump to 40 weight, but I prefer C3/E6 5w-30 oils for my Turbo GDI.

I agree with Navi that GF5 5w-30 oils will shear to a 20 grade oil in our engines, in all the UOAs I did with those oil, they were in the 20 grade, some close to a 16 grade...

I had excellent results with either Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 or Mobil ESP 5w-30, they both stayed in grade.

Rotella MV is SN+ and Mobil ESP isn't, but has low levels of calcium, I wouldn't worry using that oil in a LSPI prone engine.

They are both Low SAPS.


2015 Forester XT @ 104k km
Current fill: Pennzoil Euro LX 0w-30 with Fram Ultra XG7317
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