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Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage #5320412 01/12/20 02:39 AM
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Raven Offline OP
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Hi chaps.

Was talking with a customer today, we were talking about diesels and stuff.

He said a current vehicle of his, equipped with the Mercedes Bluetec platform, had some kind of aftermarket type air filter installed at some dealer. Apparently this modified the pressure drop in the intake, which lead to fuel combustion issues, which clogged the DPF, allowed soot to get into the turbo and cooked that too. When he took it back they ended up offering him 20k off a new vehicle because with that much alleged damage who wants to take up the tab on the labor cost of fixing all that?

Sound plausible? I think so, but I can't sleep tonight without thinking about it, if it's true.

Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320416 01/12/20 02:49 AM
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14Accent Offline
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Not a chance. There's no way an air filter caused severe engine damage, I can believe the coking, but I really doubt it fried the turho. What kind of vehicle are we talking here?


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2007 Chevrolet Impala LT
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320421 01/12/20 03:34 AM
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14Accent Offline
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No way the air filter caused engine damage. Even if pure, unfiltered air made It's way into the engine, it wouldn't do damage that quickly. I think the dealer is trying to pull a fast one on your friend.


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2007 Chevrolet Impala LT
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320450 01/12/20 06:25 AM
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honeeagle Offline
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yup plausible

happens even without a after market air cleaner


Volvo 670 singled smart car 'on deck' towing newmar 5th
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320458 01/12/20 06:39 AM
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Cujet Offline
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No way. That's a turbocharged engine that has very well managed intake manifold pressure and fuel delivery. It's calibrated to operate within normal parameters from sea level at -40 deg F to +120 deg F, to 15,000 feet elevation and everything in between. It's also configured to compensate for air filter condition.

This is nothing new with Mercedes. I wish your friend well. Don't forget the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act




Originally Posted by honeeagle
yup plausible, happens even without a after market air cleaner
Not plausible for the reasons I mentioned above. The diesel engine operates over a VERY WIDE range of air fuel ratios. On a turbocharged Blutec, the engine is very well managed and there is no way that a so called low restriction air filter will change the combustion event, as manifold pressure and fuel delivery are "magically" controlled by computer. Something went wrong here, and it's not the airfilter.

Remember, these things can maintain rated HP at any elevation. The intake manifold pressure and fuel delivery are perfectly matched always.

Last edited by Cujet; 01/12/20 06:51 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320464 01/12/20 06:59 AM
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edwardh1 Offline
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Possibly driving it too hard then parking it immediately while very hot


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320560 01/12/20 08:56 AM
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Audios Offline
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Pressure drop in the intake AFTER the turbo? No way, if the MAP was showing a lower manifold pressure they wouldve opened the vanes up more to compensate, or ay least throw a system too lean fault before all of that happened, unless of course he ignored the check engine. More likely is the turbo has failing seals, common on the hot V setup like my GL, and its shooting non ESP oil into the intake, burning it off and sooting up the DPF. I bet a good DPF cleaning with a regen and some additive wouldve cleared it up.


2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI- M1 0/30 ESP
2005 BMW M3 BMW-Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-M1 15/50
1998 BMW M3/4/5-M1 10/40
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: edwardh1] #5320562 01/12/20 08:57 AM
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Audios Offline
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
Possibly driving it too hard then parking it immediately while very hot


These have after run coolant pumps.


2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI- M1 0/30 ESP
2005 BMW M3 BMW-Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-M1 15/50
1998 BMW M3/4/5-M1 10/40
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: edwardh1] #5320585 01/12/20 09:19 AM
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maxdustington Offline
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
Possibly driving it too hard then parking it immediately while very hot
They didn't make Bluetecs in the 80s, boomer.


99 Toyota Tercel CE 5EFE/C151
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320677 01/12/20 11:23 AM
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Raven Offline OP
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Appreciate the input.

I reckon maybe instead of an air filter, he had a leaking fuel injector? I know that can contribute to that, same with excessively short trips too often. Both will clog up the DPF and kick it into regen a lot.

I'm not sure which exact vehicle it was, but he did say it was "before the urine thing" (I think he meant urea LOL) so that gives me a rough timeframe to work with. From what I know, this must have not been a BluTec motor because all BlueTec systems have DPFs and SCR. DPFs started coming out before SCR, so it must have been in that middle timeframe.

Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320702 01/12/20 12:11 PM
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TiGeo Offline
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No way. Aftermarket high-flow filters have been getting blamed by OEMs for other completely unrelated crap for years (K&N/MAF).


2018 VW Atlas SEL 4Motion 3.6 VR6 - Castrol OE 5W40 VW filter
2018 VW GSW S 4Motion 1.8 TSI Unitronic St2 IS20 - LiquiMoly 5W40 VW filter
2013 Ford Focus SE HB 2.0 Ti-VCT - MC syn-blend 5W20 MC filter
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320706 01/12/20 12:20 PM
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It’s the oil from the filter.

It gets on the MAF and causes the DPF to get plugged. It’s common on VW TDIs and requires the DPF and MAF to be replaced. All because of an oiled high flow air filter.

The irony is that increasing airflow won’t do anything on a diesel without a supporting tune.

Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: CleverUserName] #5320741 01/12/20 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CleverUserName
It’s the oil from the filter.

It gets on the MAF and causes the DPF to get plugged. It’s common on VW TDIs and requires the DPF and MAF to be replaced. All because of an oiled high flow air filter.

The irony is that increasing airflow won’t do anything on a diesel without a supporting tune.


popcorn


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2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
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Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: Raven] #5320795 01/12/20 02:13 PM
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Linctex Offline
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Originally Posted by Raven
When he took it back they ended up offering him 20k off a new vehicle because .............


I was reading intently until I got to this part.

No dealer would pony up for that.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Aftermarket air filter contributing to major engine damage [Re: CleverUserName] #5321297 01/13/20 07:05 AM
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TiGeo Offline
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Originally Posted by CleverUserName
It’s the oil from the filter.

It gets on the MAF and causes the DPF to get plugged. It’s common on VW TDIs and requires the DPF and MAF to be replaced. All because of an oiled high flow air filter.

The irony is that increasing airflow won’t do anything on a diesel without a supporting tune.



I suggest that it doesn't come off the filters, even at flows that are well beyond what the engine can do and even at oiling levels that are egregious. It's BS/urban legend. I remember having 2 MAFs go on my old Jetta, I'm sure if I had been using a K&N it would been blamed. I'm sure if I sent the MAFs to K&N they would have tested them and found no trace of their oil. MAFs actually fail sometimes and K&Ns are an easy blame based on the propagation that the oil magically flies off. Runnign them in all my cars with zero issue/drama and have been for years. Anyway, some great videos on the subject.

https://youtu.be/LeqP_1Y_pC0

https://youtu.be/gE6moItrZNg


2018 VW Atlas SEL 4Motion 3.6 VR6 - Castrol OE 5W40 VW filter
2018 VW GSW S 4Motion 1.8 TSI Unitronic St2 IS20 - LiquiMoly 5W40 VW filter
2013 Ford Focus SE HB 2.0 Ti-VCT - MC syn-blend 5W20 MC filter
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