looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
is it just over price mobil car oil
any one ever test mobil 1 racing 4t 10w-40 motorcycle oil
- Thread starter BigRich954
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Shifts were nice in my Raptor 660R - but no analysis - cooling fan ran less, so ran cooler.
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Originally Posted by BigRich954
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
There are both UOA and VOA results for that oil on this site. There are also tests on this oil from various manufacturers trying to compete.
It's nothing like the automotive oil. With higher ZDDP, calcium and a generally robust additive package. It's also very shear resistant and has a high HTHS.
A previous discussion:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2976138
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
There are both UOA and VOA results for that oil on this site. There are also tests on this oil from various manufacturers trying to compete.
It's nothing like the automotive oil. With higher ZDDP, calcium and a generally robust additive package. It's also very shear resistant and has a high HTHS.
A previous discussion:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2976138
Last edited:
Used it in the last decade ( or prior) to boost sump of poor performing ILSAC GF4 PCMO back in the API-SM days.
Then ESSO changed the blend, cut back the PAO substantial and it isn't as outstanding as it was, so I dont use it anymore.
No its not PCMO. EP/AW package has to be adjusted to accomodate wet clutch packs ad its not focused on Energy Conservation.
Then ESSO changed the blend, cut back the PAO substantial and it isn't as outstanding as it was, so I dont use it anymore.
No its not PCMO. EP/AW package has to be adjusted to accomodate wet clutch packs ad its not focused on Energy Conservation.
heavier oils generally used in motorcycles need NOT meet the specs of 30 W or less, but there are a few small bikes calling for a 30 + if you use that it best be a motorcycle oil. when castrol + mobil differed in opinion + castrol was marketing group III fake synthetics before they were legally marketable as such they others followed using good but lesser group III's instead of real synthetic PAO + Ester oils forever screwing things up!!
Originally Posted by BigRich954
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It is likely given the numbers that our motorcycle oil is chiefly
reformulated Auto oil... the degree of change reflects market share...
either way M1 Auto or M1 4T oil will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations...
Here are virgin oil samples of $4.89 a quart Mobil 1 Auto Oil 10W40
and $9.98 a quart Mobil 4T Motorcycle specific oil... listed in parts
per million are minor differences in the additive package you're
paying for...
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/01/full-45634-40107-mobil10w40v4t10w40.jpg "[Linked Image]")
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It is likely given the numbers that our motorcycle oil is chiefly
reformulated Auto oil... the degree of change reflects market share...
either way M1 Auto or M1 4T oil will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations...
Here are virgin oil samples of $4.89 a quart Mobil 1 Auto Oil 10W40
and $9.98 a quart Mobil 4T Motorcycle specific oil... listed in parts
per million are minor differences in the additive package you're
paying for...
Originally Posted by Cujet
It's nothing like the automotive oil. With higher ZDDP, calcium and a generally robust additive package. It's also very shear resistant and has a high HTHS.
Thanks to BITOG data I think we finding the single most common
misunderstanding about motor oil is that higher zinc levels provide
greater wear protection. fact is more zinc provides longer wear protection...
but thats a moot point given the short oil change intervals owners
favor...
Zinc is used/sacrificed in very small quantities at time, so the total
amount present in your oil does not change how much wear protection
the oil provides, as long as you don't run out of zinc. "Lab Testing"
and "Wear Testing" analysis proves/confirms that more zinc provides
LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection.
1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard,
whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing,
has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc
does NOT provide todayÂ’s best wear protection, and that using zinc as
the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.
2. The GM Oil Report titled, “Oil Myths from GM Techlink”, concluded
that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT
provide more wear protection.
3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, “More
than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil”, concluded that more
zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer
wear protection.
4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company: There is such a thing as too
much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a
detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive
performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will
“tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP
effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection.
Only so much is utilized. We donÂ’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.
It's nothing like the automotive oil. With higher ZDDP, calcium and a generally robust additive package. It's also very shear resistant and has a high HTHS.
Thanks to BITOG data I think we finding the single most common
misunderstanding about motor oil is that higher zinc levels provide
greater wear protection. fact is more zinc provides longer wear protection...
but thats a moot point given the short oil change intervals owners
favor...
Zinc is used/sacrificed in very small quantities at time, so the total
amount present in your oil does not change how much wear protection
the oil provides, as long as you don't run out of zinc. "Lab Testing"
and "Wear Testing" analysis proves/confirms that more zinc provides
LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection.
1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard,
whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing,
has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc
does NOT provide todayÂ’s best wear protection, and that using zinc as
the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.
2. The GM Oil Report titled, “Oil Myths from GM Techlink”, concluded
that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT
provide more wear protection.
3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, “More
than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil”, concluded that more
zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer
wear protection.
4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company: There is such a thing as too
much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a
detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive
performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will
“tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP
effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection.
Only so much is utilized. We donÂ’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.
BLS, I know what you are saying, and it's true in a generic sense. It seems 1200 ppm ZDDP has long been considered the proper level for old school engines and modest lifter loads. However, it's become clear after some recent testing that higher levels will carry higher lifter loads.
So while Ed Hackett may be correct, we can still prove, via lab testing, that more ZDDP will carry a higher load before scuffing occurs. Some highly loaded lifters in hot rod engines have lifter failures at anything less than 2000 ppm.
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product_images/customer_support_item-_pdf-35.pdf
https://tech.drivenracingoil.com/zinc-in-motor-oil/
So while Ed Hackett may be correct, we can still prove, via lab testing, that more ZDDP will carry a higher load before scuffing occurs. Some highly loaded lifters in hot rod engines have lifter failures at anything less than 2000 ppm.
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product_images/customer_support_item-_pdf-35.pdf
https://tech.drivenracingoil.com/zinc-in-motor-oil/
Originally Posted by BigRich954
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It works very well, holds shift quality to 5000 miles in a high horsepower and torque shared sump inline 4-cylinder in my experience. Gets worked in the low and mid-range and roll on, and gets run up to over 10,000 RPM on occasion.
Have you searched the motorcycle used oil analysis section? I posted a specific thread about M1 10w40 4T with my test results and it's clearly in the thread title, from December of 2018.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...1200-mobil-1-10w40-4t-racing#Post4865603
More recently I posted about M1 20W50 VTwin (shown specifically in the title) and you can compare that to the previous test which was the 4T.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...il-1-v-twin-20w50-5065-miles#Post5183041
Both of those oils have really good boron content as well as what I consider good zinc content for flat tappet engines with cam profiles that are more aggressive than what you find in an everyday automobile.
BLS, again if zinc content is not relevant to the overall protection of an engine other than to extend an oil change interval, then there would be no addition of boron or moly or titanium, etc as anti-wear additives. Based on what is being said, the reduced zinc should be more than enough. Does anyone want to go there and say that should be the case?
I believe it is understood excessive zinc can be a negative factor. However within a certain concentration range, there are benefits that some flat tappet engines can take advantage of, and it is a fact not speculation.
The analysis posted in this thread comparing Mobil car oil to Amsoil oil... Mobil makes no car oil with that additive package and I think you said you do not know what era it came from based on posts in other threads. That test can't be considered recent or relevant when it comes to a Mobil oil comparison to any other oil, and certainly motorcycle oil that is available today for purchase and putting in a sump.
It was posted recently when boron (in the context of motor oils and the most common form used) was mentioned as an anti-wear additive that replaces zinc, that boron is not an anti-wear additive but used as an antifreeze inhibitor (!). It is in antifreeze as an inhibitor to counter the effects of antifreeze on a cooling system, which is not "inhibiting" antifreeze in motor oil.
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It works very well, holds shift quality to 5000 miles in a high horsepower and torque shared sump inline 4-cylinder in my experience. Gets worked in the low and mid-range and roll on, and gets run up to over 10,000 RPM on occasion.
Have you searched the motorcycle used oil analysis section? I posted a specific thread about M1 10w40 4T with my test results and it's clearly in the thread title, from December of 2018.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...1200-mobil-1-10w40-4t-racing#Post4865603
More recently I posted about M1 20W50 VTwin (shown specifically in the title) and you can compare that to the previous test which was the 4T.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...il-1-v-twin-20w50-5065-miles#Post5183041
Both of those oils have really good boron content as well as what I consider good zinc content for flat tappet engines with cam profiles that are more aggressive than what you find in an everyday automobile.
BLS, again if zinc content is not relevant to the overall protection of an engine other than to extend an oil change interval, then there would be no addition of boron or moly or titanium, etc as anti-wear additives. Based on what is being said, the reduced zinc should be more than enough. Does anyone want to go there and say that should be the case?
I believe it is understood excessive zinc can be a negative factor. However within a certain concentration range, there are benefits that some flat tappet engines can take advantage of, and it is a fact not speculation.
The analysis posted in this thread comparing Mobil car oil to Amsoil oil... Mobil makes no car oil with that additive package and I think you said you do not know what era it came from based on posts in other threads. That test can't be considered recent or relevant when it comes to a Mobil oil comparison to any other oil, and certainly motorcycle oil that is available today for purchase and putting in a sump.
It was posted recently when boron (in the context of motor oils and the most common form used) was mentioned as an anti-wear additive that replaces zinc, that boron is not an anti-wear additive but used as an antifreeze inhibitor (!). It is in antifreeze as an inhibitor to counter the effects of antifreeze on a cooling system, which is not "inhibiting" antifreeze in motor oil.
Originally Posted by BigRich954
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It has already been tested, it achieves JASO MA2 and JASO MA which are relevant motorcycle specifications. How would you test it to show it does anything better or worse than meet those specs?
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It has already been tested, it achieves JASO MA2 and JASO MA which are relevant motorcycle specifications. How would you test it to show it does anything better or worse than meet those specs?
Thanks guys that a Amazing amount of info.
I tried googling and searching and not much popped up so I wasn't sure if it was a new oil or garbage.
I'm putting it into a single cylinder High worked quad that's known to Shear oils badly.
I really wanted to use Rotella T6 which I normally use and everything
I tried googling and searching and not much popped up so I wasn't sure if it was a new oil or garbage.
I'm putting it into a single cylinder High worked quad that's known to Shear oils badly.
I really wanted to use Rotella T6 which I normally use and everything
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I didn't search the used oil area that's my bad
Hey no worries, I get excited and want to find something out so I post up sometimes myself. It is a bit of work to search, which I think the search function on this forum sucks, or even to go page by page through the threads. I came across a bit strong on that, my bad.
Many times I will do a general Google search for what I'm looking for, such as name the oil I am looking for along with the words "analysis" or "used oil analysis" or "uoa", it pulls the threads in from this forum readily.
For a 10w40, in my modded ZRX 1200, it held up really well. It did fall out of grade by just a little bit, however the 4T starts thin so it didn't lose much relative to where it started.
Simply meeting the standards in terms of JASO as we know means nothing in terms of how well the oil resists shear.
Where are you located? The M1 20w50 V Twin oil is stout in terms of sheer resistance as well. Could be fine if your climate allows for it.
Many times I will do a general Google search for what I'm looking for, such as name the oil I am looking for along with the words "analysis" or "used oil analysis" or "uoa", it pulls the threads in from this forum readily.
For a 10w40, in my modded ZRX 1200, it held up really well. It did fall out of grade by just a little bit, however the 4T starts thin so it didn't lose much relative to where it started.
Simply meeting the standards in terms of JASO as we know means nothing in terms of how well the oil resists shear.
Where are you located? The M1 20w50 V Twin oil is stout in terms of sheer resistance as well. Could be fine if your climate allows for it.
Originally Posted by Cujet
BLS, I know what you are saying, and it's true in a generic sense. It seems 1200 ppm ZDDP has long been considered the proper level for old school engines and modest lifter loads. However, it's become clear after some recent testing that higher levels will carry higher lifter loads.
So while Ed Hackett may be correct, we can still prove, via lab testing, that more ZDDP will carry a higher load before scuffing occurs. Some highly loaded lifters in hot rod engines have lifter failures at anything less than 2000 ppm.
What about no zinc oils???
As you know most aircraft piston engines are air-cooled, so they tend
to run hot and due to this, they require the use of an ashless oil.
That simply means that when the oil burns, it must burn completely and
not leave any ash behind. Aircraft engines are mostly flat-tappet
engines and they seem to get along just fine without any ZDDP...
BLS, I know what you are saying, and it's true in a generic sense. It seems 1200 ppm ZDDP has long been considered the proper level for old school engines and modest lifter loads. However, it's become clear after some recent testing that higher levels will carry higher lifter loads.
So while Ed Hackett may be correct, we can still prove, via lab testing, that more ZDDP will carry a higher load before scuffing occurs. Some highly loaded lifters in hot rod engines have lifter failures at anything less than 2000 ppm.
What about no zinc oils???
As you know most aircraft piston engines are air-cooled, so they tend
to run hot and due to this, they require the use of an ashless oil.
That simply means that when the oil burns, it must burn completely and
not leave any ash behind. Aircraft engines are mostly flat-tappet
engines and they seem to get along just fine without any ZDDP...
Originally Posted by BigRich954
Thanks guys that a Amazing amount of info.
You're welcome but don't fear the shear...
Shear Stability is a measure of the amount of viscosity an oil may
lose during operation. Oil experiences very high stresses in certain
areas of the engine such as in the oil pump, cam shaft area , piston
rings, and gears or any other areas where two mating surface areas
squeeze the oil film out momentarily... but technically speaking as
our oil shears down we don't see elevated wear rates because oil
analysis shows as viscosity shears down the flow goes up and the
concept of lubrication states the greater the flow the greater the
protection...
Thanks guys that a Amazing amount of info.
You're welcome but don't fear the shear...
Shear Stability is a measure of the amount of viscosity an oil may
lose during operation. Oil experiences very high stresses in certain
areas of the engine such as in the oil pump, cam shaft area , piston
rings, and gears or any other areas where two mating surface areas
squeeze the oil film out momentarily... but technically speaking as
our oil shears down we don't see elevated wear rates because oil
analysis shows as viscosity shears down the flow goes up and the
concept of lubrication states the greater the flow the greater the
protection...
It isn't all about wear rates in a motorcycle. Shear dramatically affects shift quality and can be a legitimate drivability and safety issue in a motorcycle.
But hey, run that really thin oil in the heat of summer and miss a shift while you're moving through traffic or sit in stop-and-go traffic with the temperature needle climbing at idle with the oil as thin as water trying to provide pressure to the upper end and keep the lower end with sufficient boundary layer. No worries it's all in the name of faster flow, and lower wear rates, right?
An engine can have oil in it that flows very fast but does a poor job creating a boundary layer. That does not reduce wear and tear. Motorcycles run very hot at times, and low speed oil pressure falls as viscosity falls. Viscosity must be maintained to a safe extent, therefore a thinner oil does not protect better just because it flows faster.
I don't understand the logic you continue to share, BLS.
But hey, run that really thin oil in the heat of summer and miss a shift while you're moving through traffic or sit in stop-and-go traffic with the temperature needle climbing at idle with the oil as thin as water trying to provide pressure to the upper end and keep the lower end with sufficient boundary layer. No worries it's all in the name of faster flow, and lower wear rates, right?
An engine can have oil in it that flows very fast but does a poor job creating a boundary layer. That does not reduce wear and tear. Motorcycles run very hot at times, and low speed oil pressure falls as viscosity falls. Viscosity must be maintained to a safe extent, therefore a thinner oil does not protect better just because it flows faster.
I don't understand the logic you continue to share, BLS.
Originally Posted by Bonz
I don't understand the logic you continue to share, BLS.
Mercy Bonz... understanding oil is why we continue to share BITOG data even if it challenges our beliefs...
The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs
The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil's ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn't sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don't find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.
Quote 540Rat
VISCOSITY vs WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY COMPARISON:
20 wt oils rank between number 2 and 220
30 wt oils rank between number 1 and 233
40 wt oils rank between number 6 and 219
50 wt oils rank between number 39 and 228
60 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 101
70 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 177
So, as you can see, this is absolute PROOF that viscosity does NOT
determine an oil's wear protection capability, even though many people
mistakenly believe it does. As mentioned above, an oil's wear
protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive
package "as a whole", with the primary emphasis on the additive
package, which contains the critical extreme pressure anti-wear
components. And the additive package has nothing to do with viscosity.
In general, it is best to use the thinnest viscosity motor oil that
will still maintain sufficient HOT oil pressure. Thinner oil is best
because thinner oil flows, lubricates and cools critical engine
components better than thicker oils can. Thinner oils reduce bearing
temperatures and sump temperatures compared to thicker oils. Thinner
oils can also help increase horsepower and miles per gallon. Using
thicker oil than is needed, is going the wrong way.
I don't understand the logic you continue to share, BLS.
Mercy Bonz... understanding oil is why we continue to share BITOG data even if it challenges our beliefs...
The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs
The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil's ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn't sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don't find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.
Quote 540Rat
VISCOSITY vs WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY COMPARISON:
20 wt oils rank between number 2 and 220
30 wt oils rank between number 1 and 233
40 wt oils rank between number 6 and 219
50 wt oils rank between number 39 and 228
60 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 101
70 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 177
So, as you can see, this is absolute PROOF that viscosity does NOT
determine an oil's wear protection capability, even though many people
mistakenly believe it does. As mentioned above, an oil's wear
protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive
package "as a whole", with the primary emphasis on the additive
package, which contains the critical extreme pressure anti-wear
components. And the additive package has nothing to do with viscosity.
In general, it is best to use the thinnest viscosity motor oil that
will still maintain sufficient HOT oil pressure. Thinner oil is best
because thinner oil flows, lubricates and cools critical engine
components better than thicker oils can. Thinner oils reduce bearing
temperatures and sump temperatures compared to thicker oils. Thinner
oils can also help increase horsepower and miles per gallon. Using
thicker oil than is needed, is going the wrong way.
The oil analysis comparison you show in threads you become a part of has nothing to do with what we are talking about, that oil is not made anymore by Mobil.
The zinc philosophy is patently false, higher levels do provide better protection in some applications and you are saying that it doesn't.
You are completely ignoring shift quality and oil that shears loses shift quality, and thinner oil does not provide the same shift quality in many motorcycle transmissions regardless if it's brand-new and thin or older and sheared down to the same weight. A shared sump motorcycle transmission is nothing like an automotive transmission, that info is irrelevant.
Not sure what motorcycle you ride, but if you have a nice sunny day, go ride it and enjoy.
The zinc philosophy is patently false, higher levels do provide better protection in some applications and you are saying that it doesn't.
You are completely ignoring shift quality and oil that shears loses shift quality, and thinner oil does not provide the same shift quality in many motorcycle transmissions regardless if it's brand-new and thin or older and sheared down to the same weight. A shared sump motorcycle transmission is nothing like an automotive transmission, that info is irrelevant.
Not sure what motorcycle you ride, but if you have a nice sunny day, go ride it and enjoy.
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by BigRich954
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It is likely given the numbers that our motorcycle oil is chiefly
reformulated Auto oil... the degree of change reflects market share...
either way M1 Auto or M1 4T oil will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations...
Here are virgin oil samples of $4.89 a quart Mobil 1 Auto Oil 10W40
and $9.98 a quart Mobil 4T Motorcycle specific oil... listed in parts
per million are minor differences in the additive package you're
paying for...
Current info from Mobil's websites lists lower ZDDP that shown here....
Originally Posted by BigRich954
looking for some test info ?
is it just over price mobil car oil
It is likely given the numbers that our motorcycle oil is chiefly
reformulated Auto oil... the degree of change reflects market share...
either way M1 Auto or M1 4T oil will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations...
Here are virgin oil samples of $4.89 a quart Mobil 1 Auto Oil 10W40
and $9.98 a quart Mobil 4T Motorcycle specific oil... listed in parts
per million are minor differences in the additive package you're
paying for...
Current info from Mobil's websites lists lower ZDDP that shown here....
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Might be a good rebuild break in oil, LoL
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