Castrol Edge 0W-40 lost LL-01?

I don't think it used to carry 229.5 or A40. Interesting upgrade.

There have been 2 recent UOA's of dealer fill Edge 5w40 that looked surprisingly good, I am about to send in another. Still believe the 0w40 likely has better base stock though. The UOA's would suggest it makes little difference. If you live in Alaska the 0w40 should have a decent cold start advantage though.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what specification or approval are you seeking for your car?

My car quotes LL-01 as it's older. I replace it more regularly than the OEM calls out, so I'm so concerned about that rating although it's a clear indication that its acceptable. Last year, I'd had an eye on my oil as it had a 3-year OCI before I got it and the best place to look at the oil is removing the cover from the oil filter housing. After a cold spell that got below -30F, I checked the oil and the oil filter element had twisted and effectively shortened the filter, which I assume was from the oil thickening. It had dealer-installed oil in it, but I doubt it was the OEM brand, so I have no idea if it was 0W or 5W or 10W for that matter.

At any rate, I'm just trying to keep a list of options that I can go to when I need oil and understand the differences between them.
 
Originally Posted by motech
So does the Castrol 5w40 we have here in the states officially have MB 229.5 now? The Castrol webpage says 229.3, but the data sheet says 229.3/229.5.

Until bottle says MB229.5, no.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.


Love how you internet experts state false claims with such confidence, the unknowing would think you know what you're talking about. If LL-01 is being phased out of most lubes, and if only "legacy" products carry it, then why are there new oils coming out to market with LL-01? Including the new Mobil Super Syn Euro 5W-40, Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen2, and the New Reformulated Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

As you can see LL-01 is not being "phased out" as companies are coming out with new formulations with it.
 
Originally Posted by motoroil5w
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.


Love how you internet experts state false claims with such confidence, the unknowing would think you know what you're talking about. If LL-01 is being phased out of most lubes, and if only "legacy" products carry it, then why are there new oils coming out to market with LL-01? Including the new Mobil Super Syn Euro 5W-40, Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen2, and the New Reformulated Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

As you can see LL-01 is not being "phased out" as companies are coming out with new formulations with it.


I love how folks join a message board and their first post is a slam at somebody but their own reading comprehension is so poor they don't even counter the claim being made. I indicated it appears to be being phased out on 0w-xx lubes and MAY be phased out by some companies period. The Ravenol 0w-40 I'm running presently is one of the few 0w-40's remaining that still carries LL-01, both M1 FS 0w-40 and Castrol 0w-40 no longer carry the approval and neither does the SOPUS 0w-40 product. You mentioning two 5w-40 products in no way counters what I've presented, which was specifically in regards to 0w-40, you know, the topic of this thread.

Great contribution though, glad to have you onboard
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by motoroil5w
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.


Love how you internet experts state false claims with such confidence, the unknowing would think you know what you're talking about. If LL-01 is being phased out of most lubes, and if only "legacy" products carry it, then why are there new oils coming out to market with LL-01? Including the new Mobil Super Syn Euro 5W-40, Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen2, and the New Reformulated Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

As you can see LL-01 is not being "phased out" as companies are coming out with new formulations with it.


I love how folks join a message board and their first post is a slam at somebody but their own reading comprehension is so poor they don't even counter the claim being made. I indicated it appears to be being phased out on 0w-xx lubes and MAY be phased out by some companies period. The Ravenol 0w-40 I'm running presently is one of the few 0w-40's remaining that still carries LL-01, both M1 FS 0w-40 and Castrol 0w-40 no longer carry the approval and neither does the SOPUS 0w-40 product. You mentioning two 5w-40 products in no way counters what I've presented, which was specifically in regards to 0w-40, you know, the topic of this thread.

Great contribution though, glad to have you onboard
thumbsup2.gif


I think there is some merit to this. Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 is reformulated at the end of 2019 and does still carry LL01. Castrol Edge 5W40 just obtained MB229.5, which means some improvements had to be made to the oil, and at the same time it is different than European version of 5W40, but still carries LL01.
This is pure speculation now, but I am startig to lean on a side that BMW updated specification, not phased out.
 
Originally Posted by motoroil5w
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.


Love how you internet experts state false claims with such confidence, the unknowing would think you know what you're talking about. If LL-01 is being phased out of most lubes, and if only "legacy" products carry it, then why are there new oils coming out to market with LL-01? Including the new Mobil Super Syn Euro 5W-40, Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen2, and the New Reformulated Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

As you can see LL-01 is not being "phased out" as companies are coming out with new formulations with it.

As I mentioned above, there is some merit to this, but you have no idea actually what you talking about.
There is a case to be made that those oils are already approved by BMW. Just because oil is new to the market does not mean it was not formulated before. Everything regarding LL01 and LL04 is pure speculation at this point.
 
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
OVERKILL: yup, someone let the back door open and the "keyboard warriors" came a running
crazy2.gif



crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by motoroil5w
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.


Love how you internet experts state false claims with such confidence, the unknowing would think you know what you're talking about. If LL-01 is being phased out of most lubes, and if only "legacy" products carry it, then why are there new oils coming out to market with LL-01? Including the new Mobil Super Syn Euro 5W-40, Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen2, and the New Reformulated Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

As you can see LL-01 is not being "phased out" as companies are coming out with new formulations with it.

As I mentioned above, there is some merit to this, but you have no idea actually what you talking about.
There is a case to be made that those oils are already approved by BMW. Just because oil is new to the market does not mean it was not formulated before. Everything regarding LL01 and LL04 is pure speculation at this point.


This might also explain why Euro L and ESP 5w30 have LL04, but Euro LX and ESP 0w30 do not. Maybe they aren't approving 0w's anymore?
 
M1 ESP 5w-30 does not have the LL04, i think the bmw approved ll04 oils(mid saps oil) cant be a low saps oil.

and i also think the new formulation of the LL01 and LL04 does not allow 0w-30 and 0w-40 to its program. But i am not 100% sure.
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
This might also explain why Euro L and ESP 5w30 have LL04, but Euro LX and ESP 0w30 do not. Maybe they aren't approving 0w's anymore?


Ravenol SSL 0w-40 still has it
21.gif


It's a very old spec at this point, what modern BMW vehicles still call for it? Mobil doesn't have a single flagship (Mobil 1) product that carries it and has now relegated it to being held by one of its 2nd tier ones, Mobil Super Synthetic. I believe Garak noted that a bulk 5w-40 they sold in Canada never lost LL-01 when it slipped out of the Mobil 1 product line.
 
Originally Posted by motoroil5w
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.


Love how you internet experts state false claims with such confidence, the unknowing would think you know what you're talking about. If LL-01 is being phased out of most lubes, and if only "legacy" products carry it, then why are there new oils coming out to market with LL-01? Including the new Mobil Super Syn Euro 5W-40, Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen2, and the New Reformulated Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40.

As you can see LL-01 is not being "phased out" as companies are coming out with new formulations with it.



None of your examples indicate a new approval was issued especially the Mobil Super (2nd tier product) and Pennzoil ("Specifications, Approvals & Recommendations" are lumped together and no indication given as to which cert falls into which category).

Motul is largely unremarkable (SN A3/B4) and I don't know how much tweaking automakers allow before a cert is invalidated. I would not be surprised if Motul is stating an old vs new cert. It IS advertising.
 
So. I just changed the oil in my 2015 535i. I ordered Castrol edge 0w-40 from Walmart. The 5 gallon jug didn't show LL-01 but the 2 quart containers did.
 
Originally Posted by Mangos86
So. I just changed the oil in my 2015 535i. I ordered Castrol edge 0w-40 from Walmart. The 5 gallon jug didn't show LL-01 but the 2 quart containers did.

Yeah the quart containers are old stock, not many people buy them due to the much higher price.

My local Walmart had the 5-quart containers with Longlife-01 approval for a long time after others on here were reporting about the newer ones without. For me I am quite content to continue using it since the oil still has Porsche A40 and Mercedes-Benz 229.5 approval which are similar in scope to Longlife-01.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
This might also explain why Euro L and ESP 5w30 have LL04, but Euro LX and ESP 0w30 do not. Maybe they aren't approving 0w's anymore?


Ravenol SSL 0w-40 still has it
21.gif


It's a very old spec at this point, what modern BMW vehicles still call for it? Mobil doesn't have a single flagship (Mobil 1) product that carries it and has now relegated it to being held by one of its 2nd tier ones, Mobil Super Synthetic. I believe Garak noted that a bulk 5w-40 they sold in Canada never lost LL-01 when it slipped out of the Mobil 1 product line.

BMW still provides TPT 5W30 LL01. Actually I bought it in BMW dealership in January.
All modern BMW vehicles are still having LL01 and LL04 in manual.
As for Ravenol, I high doubt Ravenol changes formulations as often as others.
Right now I am leaning on a side of being updated.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
This might also explain why Euro L and ESP 5w30 have LL04, but Euro LX and ESP 0w30 do not. Maybe they aren't approving 0w's anymore?


Ravenol SSL 0w-40 still has it
21.gif


It's a very old spec at this point, what modern BMW vehicles still call for it? Mobil doesn't have a single flagship (Mobil 1) product that carries it and has now relegated it to being held by one of its 2nd tier ones, Mobil Super Synthetic. I believe Garak noted that a bulk 5w-40 they sold in Canada never lost LL-01 when it slipped out of the Mobil 1 product line.

BMW still provides TPT 5W30 LL01. Actually I bought it in BMW dealership in January.
All modern BMW vehicles are still having LL01 and LL04 in manual.
As for Ravenol, I high doubt Ravenol changes formulations as often as others.
Right now I am leaning on a side of being updated.


New or old stock?

Perhaps throw the part # in realoem.com to see if it has been discontinued?
 
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