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I get all the good ones...... #5319229 01/11/20 12:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,055
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clinebarger Offline OP
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2010 Ford Fusion with a Duratec 3.0L/6F35, Customer complaint being......
*Hard start (Long Crank time)
*Transmission does not shift
*Speedometer inoperative
*Check Engine Lamp on (Needs state inspection)

Further information gathered from customer.....
*Vehicle stalled on the highway & would not crank.
*Pulled the vehicle to an Autozone & was diagnosed as a faulty Transmission Range Switch per fault codes.
*Vehicle was pulled to a repair shop & a new TRS was installed but apparently didn't fix it.
*A wire was ran from the Ignition Switch directly to the Starter Solenoid by the same repair shop (I hope this wasn't done by a shop but can't verify)
*Vehicle now cranks & runs but has the issues above.

My initial observations......
*Engine cranks for @ 15 seconds before start up.
*Vehicle is stuck in 5th gear, Slams into reverse (Max Line Pressure)
*Gear/Range Indicator in the Cluster is inoperative.
*Code Scan of all modules showed over 100 DTC's stored.


With that many DTC's.....I screenshot 'em & clear them all out! Not about to weave through that mess!
Got about every circuit code possible for the TRS (P0706, P0707, P1702, and P1705) with a KOEO self test.
KOER self test revealed circuit DTC's for both Cam Sensors "CMP" (P0340, P0344, P0345, P0346, and P0349) No cam position signals will cause long crank times & was most likely the cause of the stall on the highway?

Every diagnostic mechanic has to make a decision here......Using Fords diag/pinpoint charts is something I've learned NOT to follow!
Decided to review a wiring diagram first. The TRS & Both CMP sensors use a Vehicle Power Reference (VPWR) which is Ford speak for a 12volt sensor power supply provided by the Engine Control Module.
While the TRS & CMP sensors VPWR feed circuits are wired to separate pins on the ECM, They share the same circuit numbers LE111 & wire colors Violent/Green.....Meaning they share the same power supply within the PCM.

Bank 2 CMP connector is fairly easy to get to, Unplugged it & sure enough.....It had no VPWR reference. According to my Power Probe III, It was completely Open!
Bank 1 CMP connector is not easily accessible! So I lifted the vehicle & unplugged the TCM connector......No VPWR reference there either (Pin 18).
Removed the right motor mount bridge & lifted the engine enough to access the Bank 1 CMP connector & unplugged it......
Viola........I now have VPWR reference!

Shorted Bank 1 CMP sensor bringing down the VPWR is the smoking gun.....Right?
I even reconnected Bank 2 CMP & the TCM connector.....VPWR remained steady/near battery voltage, Transmission now shifts, Gear indicator & Speedometer works, And it cranks without the jumper wire!

However....I'm still getting ALL the CMP sensor codes as before, Including Bank 2 which is connected!
Using my Scope backprobed onto Bank 2 CMP signal wire expecting to see a Zero to 12volt square wave signal....Thinking the ECM was simply freaking out with a missing Bank 1 CMP signal?.....WRONG, No signal/flatline!

Well....Maybe I don't have a good connection, As I put my fingers on my T-Pin to make sure it's seated all the way in the connector.....I feel that something is hitting the sensor as the engine is idling.

Removed Bank 2 CMP & find the tip is gone & chewed up. Removed the front valve cover & find the Reluctor/Tone Wheel has separated from the VVT Cam Phaser!

So....I have a electrically shorted CMP sensor on Bank 1 & a Mechanically damaged CMP sensor on Bank 2, What are the odds????

I removed the Bank 1 CMP & plugged it into the Bank 2 connector.....& it instantly brought down the LE111 VPWR circuit!

The vehicle needs a VVT Cam Phaser & both CMP sensors! WOW, One of the more interesting failures I've seen!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319230 01/11/20 12:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,055
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clinebarger Offline OP
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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319232 01/11/20 12:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,354
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dogememe Offline
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[censored], i never even thought that would have been possible. interesting diag and thanks for posting!


2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~102K Miles: Castrol Magnatec 5W-20, Wix Filter.
2001 Chevy Suburban 5.3 ~290K Miles: Valvoline Maxlife 10W-30, ACDelco Filter.
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319241 01/11/20 12:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,055
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clinebarger Offline OP
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One more thing.....I considered that as the Reluctor took out the Bank 2 sensor.....It shorted & took out the Bank 1 sensor? Not that I know for sure & not about to test the theory with $53 a piece sensors.

Last edited by clinebarger; 01/11/20 12:38 AM.

2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319256 01/11/20 01:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,076
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FirstNissan Offline
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Whats the approximate labor hours and bill for this job looking like?
Seems like an incredibly involved series of repairs.


2017 Toyota Sienna
2019 Toyota Camry
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: dogememe] #5319267 01/11/20 02:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 3,196
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JLTD Offline
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Wow, nice job. I'd be inclined to bring any of our vehicles to your shop for a quality repair of anything....but it's a loong tow from CO to TX.

Thanks for sharing~~


"Let’s not pretend like 0w20 is anything but a CAFE required crutch to eek another 1/2MPG" - BLND1

Hers: 2018 Ford Flex AWD EB, dealer fill

His: 2015 4Runner 60k, SS 5w20/Amsoil

Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319278 01/11/20 03:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,060
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GMBoy Offline
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You are not far from me in Texas - should meet up because we sure could have a lot of fun with these vehicles. I like your style too - true root cause diagnosis, not parts throwing.

Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319295 01/11/20 04:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,835
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demarpaint Offline
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Troubleshooting at its finest! Nice work!!!


God Bless Our Troops

Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319300 01/11/20 04:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,580
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dlundblad Offline
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Judging by your last photo, you’ve found the hidden Mickey. Tell your customer that’s what the issue was. Lol.

In all seriousness, your diagnostic skills are impressive. Excellent job sorting through all that mess.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 195k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chvy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319326 01/11/20 06:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,117
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Kira Offline
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So, the cause of this was a badly mounted reluctor/tone wheel. It became loose, wobbled and damaged the sensor?

Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319337 01/11/20 06:39 AM
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joekingcorvette Offline
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You sir, are one very qualified mechanic! cheers


2005 Chevrolet Corvette
2014 Ford F-150 4x4 supercrew
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (wifes)
2012 Honda Civic 4 door (my daily driver)
2007 Lund Tyee Grand Sport Mercury 115HP 9.8HP
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: dlundblad] #5319338 01/11/20 06:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
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Astro14 Offline
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Originally Posted by dlundblad
Judging by your last photo, you’ve found the hidden Mickey. Tell your customer that’s what the issue was. Lol.

In all seriousness, your diagnostic skills are impressive. Excellent job sorting through all that mess.


+1

You impress me with your ability to properly diagnose!


32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319356 01/11/20 07:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,769
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Trav Offline
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Nice job as always!


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319361 01/11/20 07:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 881
P10crew Offline
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Good work! Do all them missing pieces end up in the pan? Hopefully

Re: I get all the good ones...... [Re: clinebarger] #5319370 01/11/20 07:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 12,342
PimTac Offline
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I enjoy reading your troubleshooting threads clinebarger. Thanks for posting.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
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