100 degrees F. is a cold start engine because normal running temperature 210F water. %w30 is my choice. Ed
Straight 30w in Hot Climates
- Thread starter ad244
- Start date
Originally Posted by BLND1
Why not go with a 10w30 in those climates?
10W30 HDEO? Because ISLAC 10W30 is normally blended thinner than a ISLAC 5W30.
OP there really is no issues using a straight 30 grade most could be technically labled a 15W30 but you really are not gaining anything either.
Why not go with a 10w30 in those climates?
10W30 HDEO? Because ISLAC 10W30 is normally blended thinner than a ISLAC 5W30.
OP there really is no issues using a straight 30 grade most could be technically labled a 15W30 but you really are not gaining anything either.
*I believe the concern in a vehicle would be start up wear vs. say a 10W30 or 5W30 ? Once the vehicle got up to operating temp the oils would flow the same .
Originally Posted by ad244
Hi BITOG users,
Anybody using straight 30wt in hotter climates n their passenger vehicles? - I'm talking the greater CA/AZ area where temps rarely dip into freezing temps. Would a vehicle which is spec'd for 5w-30 have any issues with this?
Thanks!
Originally Posted by ad244
Hi BITOG users,
Anybody using straight 30wt in hotter climates n their passenger vehicles? - I'm talking the greater CA/AZ area where temps rarely dip into freezing temps. Would a vehicle which is spec'd for 5w-30 have any issues with this?
Thanks!
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Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*I believe the concern in a vehicle would be start up wear vs. say a 10W30 or 5W30 ? Once the vehicle got up to operating temp the oils would flow the same.
The winter rating is irrelevant in terms of startup wear, it affects cranking and pumpability as well as fuel economy. Not "startup wear".
The only time "startup wear" is a factor is when it is so extremely cold that it is below the minimum pumpability temperature and the engine starves for oil. But as long as it pumps there is no concern for startup wear.
*I believe the concern in a vehicle would be start up wear vs. say a 10W30 or 5W30 ? Once the vehicle got up to operating temp the oils would flow the same.
The winter rating is irrelevant in terms of startup wear, it affects cranking and pumpability as well as fuel economy. Not "startup wear".
The only time "startup wear" is a factor is when it is so extremely cold that it is below the minimum pumpability temperature and the engine starves for oil. But as long as it pumps there is no concern for startup wear.
Originally Posted by ad244
Hi BITOG users,
Anybody using straight 30wt in hotter climates n their passenger vehicles? - I'm talking the greater CA/AZ area where temps rarely dip into freezing temps. Would a vehicle which is spec'd for 5w-30 have any issues with this?
Thanks!
Let's see... Zero manufacturers recommend a straight weight oil.
You will gain zero by running a straight weight oil.
If you would choose to do so anyway, I would ask you why you'd choose to switch from a multi-weight oil.
Is your multi-weight oil not performing adequately?
Is the multi-weight oil the OEM recommends not performing adequately???
I can only imagine the answer is a resounding no.
Reality is, you're not 'smarter' than others by selecting a straight weight oil.
You're not more 'in the know' either.
And the straight weight won't do anything that the OEM multi-weight is not already accomplishing.
And no, the fact that the straight weight may be more resistant to shearing out of grade is does not make it a better choice because the only thing that is important is the there is enough shear stability in the oil and a multi-weight oil will definitely provide that.
It may be an interesting thought experiment and it may indeed work for the application, but it is definitely not 'better'.
To your original question, who knows if it would have any issues. I'm sure you'll hear from several here whose Grandpa ran is in his '53 Ford pickup for years.
Give it a whirl and report back in 5 years or so.
Good luck!!!
Hi BITOG users,
Anybody using straight 30wt in hotter climates n their passenger vehicles? - I'm talking the greater CA/AZ area where temps rarely dip into freezing temps. Would a vehicle which is spec'd for 5w-30 have any issues with this?
Thanks!
Let's see... Zero manufacturers recommend a straight weight oil.
You will gain zero by running a straight weight oil.
If you would choose to do so anyway, I would ask you why you'd choose to switch from a multi-weight oil.
Is your multi-weight oil not performing adequately?
Is the multi-weight oil the OEM recommends not performing adequately???
I can only imagine the answer is a resounding no.
Reality is, you're not 'smarter' than others by selecting a straight weight oil.
You're not more 'in the know' either.
And the straight weight won't do anything that the OEM multi-weight is not already accomplishing.
And no, the fact that the straight weight may be more resistant to shearing out of grade is does not make it a better choice because the only thing that is important is the there is enough shear stability in the oil and a multi-weight oil will definitely provide that.
It may be an interesting thought experiment and it may indeed work for the application, but it is definitely not 'better'.
To your original question, who knows if it would have any issues. I'm sure you'll hear from several here whose Grandpa ran is in his '53 Ford pickup for years.
Give it a whirl and report back in 5 years or so.
Good luck!!!
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Many manufacturers recommend a 30-grade oil and an SAE 30 monograde is in fact a 30-grade oil. So that is of no consequence as long as the oil also meets any required licenses or certifications.
You surely cannot be trying to make a cogent technical argument that the winter rating has some sort of bearing on the wear or other performance of the oil? As long as it is not being used below the minimum pumping temperature it will behave similar to any other 30-grade oil. Anything somewhat above freezing it's going to behave just fine.
Considering the title of the thread is "Straight 30w in Hot Climates" your long post has no technical merit whatsoever.
You surely cannot be trying to make a cogent technical argument that the winter rating has some sort of bearing on the wear or other performance of the oil? As long as it is not being used below the minimum pumping temperature it will behave similar to any other 30-grade oil. Anything somewhat above freezing it's going to behave just fine.
Considering the title of the thread is "Straight 30w in Hot Climates" your long post has no technical merit whatsoever.
Originally Posted by Eddie
100 degrees F. is a cold start engine because normal running temperature 210F water. %w30 is my choice. Ed
I bet the viscosity at 100 is pretty darn close between SAE30 and 5W30.
The fact that SuperTech SAE30 is rated SN plus tells you everything you need to know. Using it in a place like Florida in the summer where the coldest temp is 75 degrees for many months, it's PLAINLY obvious that the oil will work and lubricate just like a 5W30 or 10W30, without any down sides.
The resounding advice in this website for years is just pick an oil that meets specs (SN plus being the current spec) and run it. SuperTech and Mag 30 are clearly oils that meet the latest specs, they are not just "lawn mower" oil, they are high quality, latest spec oils that you can use in modern cars no problem.
I can understand the folks that live up north not having a use for them, due to their weather. But in Florida or Mexico in the summer? It's fine.
100 degrees F. is a cold start engine because normal running temperature 210F water. %w30 is my choice. Ed
I bet the viscosity at 100 is pretty darn close between SAE30 and 5W30.
The fact that SuperTech SAE30 is rated SN plus tells you everything you need to know. Using it in a place like Florida in the summer where the coldest temp is 75 degrees for many months, it's PLAINLY obvious that the oil will work and lubricate just like a 5W30 or 10W30, without any down sides.
The resounding advice in this website for years is just pick an oil that meets specs (SN plus being the current spec) and run it. SuperTech and Mag 30 are clearly oils that meet the latest specs, they are not just "lawn mower" oil, they are high quality, latest spec oils that you can use in modern cars no problem.
I can understand the folks that live up north not having a use for them, due to their weather. But in Florida or Mexico in the summer? It's fine.
So without any factual data the consensus seems to be that SAE 30 will be fine.
Since it's more expensive than a multigrade....WHY???? What does it outperform in?
The higher shearing of a multigrade compared to a monograde is not the only reason to change oil, just one of them.
Since it's more expensive than a multigrade....WHY???? What does it outperform in?
The higher shearing of a multigrade compared to a monograde is not the only reason to change oil, just one of them.
Originally Posted by tundraotto
So without any factual data the consensus seems to be that SAE 30 will be fine.
Since it's more expensive than a multigrade....WHY???? What does it outperform in?
The higher shearing of a multigrade compared to a monograde is not the only reason to change oil, just one of them.
What data do you need to see that a modern SAE 20 or 30 will be fine for certain conditions?
Why is a multigrade better because it will outperform a straight grade in conditions you aren't going to experience but actually has lesser performance(shearing, Noack) in conditions you are experiencing.
So without any factual data the consensus seems to be that SAE 30 will be fine.
Since it's more expensive than a multigrade....WHY???? What does it outperform in?
The higher shearing of a multigrade compared to a monograde is not the only reason to change oil, just one of them.
What data do you need to see that a modern SAE 20 or 30 will be fine for certain conditions?
Why is a multigrade better because it will outperform a straight grade in conditions you aren't going to experience but actually has lesser performance(shearing, Noack) in conditions you are experiencing.
I said WITHOUT DATA.
I said 'consensus' - of the talking heads here. I have not seen any facts that a monograde performs better than a multigrade overall.
I do know a monograde is more expensive.
So my question remains - why a monograde at all?
I said 'consensus' - of the talking heads here. I have not seen any facts that a monograde performs better than a multigrade overall.
I do know a monograde is more expensive.
So my question remains - why a monograde at all?
Originally Posted by tundraotto
I said WITHOUT DATA.
If you look at the MAG-1 data from their 10W30 synthetic and their SAE 30 monograde (both API SN-Plus) earlier in this thread, you will see the SAE 30 offers a lower Noack volatility, as well as being shear stable and having a higher HTHS. Is that the sort of data you want? It certainly is tabulated data to me.
However maybe you want comparative wear tests between monogrades and multi-grades ?
If so I have seen that here on BITOG, some nice graphs from papers showing that the monogrades performed very well in wear tests compared to multigrades. Unfortunately i didn't save these images and the threads were from a few years ago. But yes, I do believe the data you require is out there.
Not telling you what oil to run, just directly answering the question asked. I'm a bit of a data guy myself.
I said WITHOUT DATA.
If you look at the MAG-1 data from their 10W30 synthetic and their SAE 30 monograde (both API SN-Plus) earlier in this thread, you will see the SAE 30 offers a lower Noack volatility, as well as being shear stable and having a higher HTHS. Is that the sort of data you want? It certainly is tabulated data to me.
However maybe you want comparative wear tests between monogrades and multi-grades ?
If so I have seen that here on BITOG, some nice graphs from papers showing that the monogrades performed very well in wear tests compared to multigrades. Unfortunately i didn't save these images and the threads were from a few years ago. But yes, I do believe the data you require is out there.
Not telling you what oil to run, just directly answering the question asked. I'm a bit of a data guy myself.
OK - good point - Now:
Would I be able to run the monograde SAE30 for longer than the 10W-30 for OCI?
Would the monograde SAE30 give me better performance or engine protection than the 10W-30?
For more money....it should, right?
Would I be able to run the monograde SAE30 for longer than the 10W-30 for OCI?
Would the monograde SAE30 give me better performance or engine protection than the 10W-30?
For more money....it should, right?
OK, here is the thread I was looking for
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/975793/
It shows wear data from an SAE paper that compares an SAE 30 monogrades to a 10W30 multi-grade. The graph clearly shows less wear from the monograde at both cold and hot operating temperatures, as in below or above normal engine temps. At normal engines temperature, they perform much the same.
The paper is a few years old, but the fundamental physics hasn't changed.
In the MAG-1 examples above the add packs look to be the same (except for the VII and PPD in the multi-grade). So this isn't a significant difference with SN-Plus monogrades.
Now that modern monogrades are made with Group II and modern add packages they are a real option for hot climate people.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/975793/
It shows wear data from an SAE paper that compares an SAE 30 monogrades to a 10W30 multi-grade. The graph clearly shows less wear from the monograde at both cold and hot operating temperatures, as in below or above normal engine temps. At normal engines temperature, they perform much the same.
The paper is a few years old, but the fundamental physics hasn't changed.
In the MAG-1 examples above the add packs look to be the same (except for the VII and PPD in the multi-grade). So this isn't a significant difference with SN-Plus monogrades.
Now that modern monogrades are made with Group II and modern add packages they are a real option for hot climate people.
Originally Posted by tundraotto
Would I be able to run the monograde SAE30 for longer than the 10W-30 for OCI?
How far would you run a regular Group II dino multi-grade ? Like GTX or VWB before their semi-synthetic upgrade. I would go the same distance.
Given that Mag-1 and SuperTech are the same and with the same add pack, I previously linked to a UOA of ST 10W30 synthetic that went 6,000 miles with a remaining TBN of 2.7 This should be the same add pack as the Mag-1 SAE 30. So we know the add pack is up for it.
Me? I would have no problem with a 5,000 mile OCI on a SN-Plus, Group II monograde.
Would I be able to run the monograde SAE30 for longer than the 10W-30 for OCI?
How far would you run a regular Group II dino multi-grade ? Like GTX or VWB before their semi-synthetic upgrade. I would go the same distance.
Given that Mag-1 and SuperTech are the same and with the same add pack, I previously linked to a UOA of ST 10W30 synthetic that went 6,000 miles with a remaining TBN of 2.7 This should be the same add pack as the Mag-1 SAE 30. So we know the add pack is up for it.
Me? I would have no problem with a 5,000 mile OCI on a SN-Plus, Group II monograde.
so same - not better.....
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… more and more GII+ will phase out things to the north and south on the totem pole …
For example … XOM plant upgrades? Singapore, Rotterdam, Gulf Coast.
Go figure …
Originally Posted by tundraotto
so same - not better.....
Yes same OCI as any Group II, but if they stated making SAE 30 out of Group II+ or Group III then your OCI could increase accordingly and even better cold performance.
To me their big advantages of monogrades (to those in warm climates) is lower Noack volatility, better shear stability and better wear protection (see linked SAE paper) compared to the equivalent Group multi-grade.
When it comes to volatility. This is a former oil formulated posting:
Originally Posted by Joe90_guy
I've said this many times on BITOG. Noack is an insidious killer. It kills slowly over several OCIs. Oil vapours from high Noack oils circulate back through the PCV to be burnt. The sticky, burnt oil residues can cause oil control rings to stick. Once this occurs, you get excessive oil loss which itself creates more problems like a dead cat.
Oil control ring stickage is the automotive equivalent of pancreatic cancer. It develops slowly and shows no symptoms. By the time you notice any symptoms, it's usually too late or you're going to need serious surgery.
To continue the medical analogy, it bugs me that the medical professionals (the API and OEMs) only seem concerned with short term health measures like losing weight (moving to ever lower viscosity oils), jogging (better FE) and eating more broccoli (stuff that does absolutely nothing but sounds good!). At the same time, they turn a blind eye to the sale of high tar cigarettes and drinks that contain masses of sugar (near 15% Noack, Group II, sloppily blended 5W30s).
Ref:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4016416/1
so same - not better.....
Yes same OCI as any Group II, but if they stated making SAE 30 out of Group II+ or Group III then your OCI could increase accordingly and even better cold performance.
To me their big advantages of monogrades (to those in warm climates) is lower Noack volatility, better shear stability and better wear protection (see linked SAE paper) compared to the equivalent Group multi-grade.
When it comes to volatility. This is a former oil formulated posting:
Originally Posted by Joe90_guy
I've said this many times on BITOG. Noack is an insidious killer. It kills slowly over several OCIs. Oil vapours from high Noack oils circulate back through the PCV to be burnt. The sticky, burnt oil residues can cause oil control rings to stick. Once this occurs, you get excessive oil loss which itself creates more problems like a dead cat.
Oil control ring stickage is the automotive equivalent of pancreatic cancer. It develops slowly and shows no symptoms. By the time you notice any symptoms, it's usually too late or you're going to need serious surgery.
To continue the medical analogy, it bugs me that the medical professionals (the API and OEMs) only seem concerned with short term health measures like losing weight (moving to ever lower viscosity oils), jogging (better FE) and eating more broccoli (stuff that does absolutely nothing but sounds good!). At the same time, they turn a blind eye to the sale of high tar cigarettes and drinks that contain masses of sugar (near 15% Noack, Group II, sloppily blended 5W30s).
Ref:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4016416/1
As I mentioned a couple of pages back, I had to fit a filter to my road tube breather after changing from mono to multi grade....oil coming out of the breather tube with multi grade, nothing with the mono.
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