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Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? #5316640 01/08/20 10:22 AM
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Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
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In the past year I had three cartridge filters from the same manufacturer show significant media displacement upon removal, long before their service life had ended. The manufacturer sent them to a lab. I asked them to test the filter for efficiency. The lab used a Bubble Point test to check the integrity of the filter media. They sealed the filter on the top and bottom, connected pressurized air on one end and submerged it in oil. They applied 3" of water pressure and noted no bubbles and called it good. I have not found any information that this test could be used for an oil filter. Just a brief search on this test method, it can be used to calculate pore size of a filter, by increasing pressure until pubbles can be seen. I even sent them a new, unused filter, but they did not use it as a control.

During the last six months they blamed me for damaging the filter when removing it from the cap. So I sent them a third filter still attached to the cap. They now speculate that I damaged the filter by inserting it in the cap. I sent them a Purolator filter of very similar design and media that I installed and removed several times and no damage to the filter. The manufacturer will not disclose the lab that conducted the test.

Need this forum's experts to provide feedback on this test, the method they used. Attached are photos of the damaged filter and image of the test they performed. I will soon provide the full report but will not disclose the manufacturer at this time.

20200108_095632.jpg20200108_095643.jpg20200108_095503.jpg20200108_095431.jpg
Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5316725 01/08/20 11:58 AM
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Linctex Offline
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Would it be easier to just change filter brands....?
or is this is a mystery that just MUST get solved?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5316735 01/08/20 12:09 PM
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One goal of the Bubble Point test is checking for media integrity, by watching for "air leaks" through the media. They were probabably looking for damaged/weakened areas in the media. As far as checking for efficiency, it's a crude method compared to other efficiency test standards.

https://scottlab.com/bubble-point

https://www.lenntech.com/library/fine/bubble/bubble-point.htm

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5316755 01/08/20 12:26 PM
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Thanks, I found the same links on the first page of google. Many of the reference membrane filters used in other industries. I found info on this test with filter testing services. Seems to be just a pass/fail, not efficiency. I doubt the manufacturer or GM has specs on this test, and based on their report, they did not increase pressure in .5psi increments to determine the bubble point, pore size and location,or test a new filter to compare. They only brought it up to .1 psi or 3" of water. Looks like ISO 2942 may be the applicable test.

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Linctex] #5316760 01/08/20 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Would it be easier to just change filter brands....?
or is this is a mystery that just MUST get solved?


This company claims they produce the top oil and filters on the market, and they continue to speculate that I am unable to properly install or remove the filter, despite using three other filters from other manufacturers with no problems. I have used the canister filters for years, many of them made by Baldwin and WIx for them.

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5316826 01/08/20 01:50 PM
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bullwinkle Online Confused
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I'm finding it hard to believe that Purolator/M&H cared enough about anything oil filter related to actually test them! Hengst seems to be the go-to for canister filters, they seem to have the best looking ones for Ecotec GM applications, I would think the others would be just as good-never seen a bad Hengst yet!


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Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5316873 01/08/20 02:58 PM
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Fram Ultra. Enough said.


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Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5316896 01/08/20 03:22 PM
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tc1446 Offline
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I used to use Hengst in my GM when I could buy them "made in USA", but after using my stash up and could not find any "made in USA", I went with Wix and Bosch.


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Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5316952 01/08/20 04:41 PM
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ragtoplvr Offline
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This must be on something hugely expensive like a turbine or industrial machine where the utmost in reliability is needed..

Rod

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: ragtoplvr] #5318296 01/09/20 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
This must be on something hugely expensive like a turbine or industrial machine where the utmost in reliability is needed..

Rod


Nope, just a standard GM Ecotec 2.4L.

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Oily_Thing] #5318576 01/10/20 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Oily_Thing
Fram Ultra. Enough said.


Actually, nothing said. Why should I use Fram Ultra?

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5318770 01/10/20 02:59 PM
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I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.

If you are having repeated issues with one brand and no issues with others, the logical course of action is quite clear. Unless your detective psyche really must know the answer, I wouldn't worry about it too much. But I hope you get the answers you're seeking.


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Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5318935 01/10/20 05:14 PM
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What is Reemay and what is the make of the filter? Media displacement means there was a thin spot?

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: DGXR] #5318969 01/10/20 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.


They are using the bubble test here to look for damaged areas of the filter media, not really to try and determine the efficiency of the media.

From the two links I posted earlier:

"There are 3 major tests used to determine the integrity of a membrane filter: the Bubble Point Test, the Forward Flow, or Diffusion Test, and the Pressure Hold Test."

"One of the great advantages of the bubble point test is that it can be performed of filters under actual use conditions and with any filter. It is a non-destructive test, thus it does not contaminate the filter and so can be used to determine the integrity of a filter at any time, as well as establishing the absolute rating."

Re: Bubble Point Test be used on oil filters? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5319639 01/11/20 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by DGXR
I have no experience or opinion on the bubble test. The way you describe it, they are using pressurized air to test the efficiency of a used oil filter. I see many possible problems with this approach. Although air and oil are both considered "fluids," oil filters do not filter pressurized air. Also, 3 inches of water pressure? That's nearly nothing. Engine oiling systems run on pressures many times higher than that.


They are using the bubble test here to look for damaged areas of the filter media, not really to try and determine the efficiency of the media.

From the two links I posted earlier:

"There are 3 major tests used to determine the integrity of a membrane filter: the Bubble Point Test, the Forward Flow, or Diffusion Test, and the Pressure Hold Test."

"One of the great advantages of the bubble point test is that it can be performed of filters under actual use conditions and with any filter. It is a non-destructive test, thus it does not contaminate the filter and so can be used to determine the integrity of a filter at any time, as well as establishing the absolute rating."


ZeeOSix, neither of these companies have anything to do with oil filtration, one specializes in water filter and desalination, and the other wine and spirits filtration products.

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