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How to sift through the BS Oils? #5315480 01/07/20 07:31 AM
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North_Maine Offline OP
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What are the standards used or methods for identifying when an oil may not be what it claims to be? Case in point would be Triax. Amazon reviews are great, lots of seller self-glorification, no API cert but a nice long list of manufacturer's specs it meets, but not endorsed by. I saw another thread here were someone quite pointedly said that the "approvals" should read "None."

Would this be the same case with AMSoil?, Liquimoly? Royal Purple's non-API line?

How do you conclude that an oil is good or not?


2017 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins
2002 Ram 2500 24V Cummins
2018 Ford Expedition
1966 John Deere 3020
1967 John Deere 644a
Kubota G5600 Diesel
Belarus T40
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315485 01/07/20 07:34 AM
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Imp4 Online Content
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This is the whole intent of the API starburst and donut program.
Read your owner's manual.
Follow it's instructions.
Purchase oil that meets manufacturer recommendation.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Here's a link to the API sponsored Motoroilmatters.org website that has additional information.

Last edited by Imp4; 01/07/20 07:36 AM.

2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315517 01/07/20 08:07 AM
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YUP I would not touch that stuff unless a user group for the vehicle I own has UOAs over several years to show it is good or better than a walmart synthetic. Even then I would not use it. Why take the chance that is has some hydraulic or foaming property that occurs in certain situations that are not compatible with your particular engine. Not worth chasing a ghost of a buttery smooth idle on an engine that is naturally board a valve train rattle trap. If you are getting bad UOAs on a variety of walmart oils, no boutique oil will save you.

Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: Imp4] #5315536 01/07/20 08:28 AM
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Bud Offline
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Originally Posted by Imp4
This is the whole intent of the API starburst and donut program.
Read your owner's manual.
Follow it's instructions.
Purchase oil that meets manufacturer recommendation.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Here's a link to the API sponsored Motoroilmatters.org website that has additional information.

approved


2016 Honda Pilot EX-L with NAVI.....Mobil 1 0w20 AFE and Honda OEM Filter
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: Bud] #5315582 01/07/20 09:19 AM
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North_Maine Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Bud
Originally Posted by Imp4
This is the whole intent of the API starburst and donut program.
Read your owner's manual.
Follow it's instructions.
Purchase oil that meets manufacturer recommendation.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Here's a link to the API sponsored Motoroilmatters.org website that has additional information.

approved


I agree, though there is some ambiguity. For instance my newest truck says "FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required. Products meeting Cummins CES 20081 may also be used." and along comes Triax (and most others, not picking on one particular oil) listing Cummins CES 20086 under "Product Specifications"...

There is a reference in the manual that does recommend only using API-certed oils... so I guess that's the short answer- if it doesn't have the API seal then it is unacceptable to use. That does run counter to the entire Amsoil culture.

Thanks for the feedback guys.


2017 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins
2002 Ram 2500 24V Cummins
2018 Ford Expedition
1966 John Deere 3020
1967 John Deere 644a
Kubota G5600 Diesel
Belarus T40
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315590 01/07/20 09:26 AM
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2019 Ford F150 NAPA syn 5w20 Motorcraft Filter
2000 Chevy 2500 Silverado NAPA conv 5w30 AC Delco Filter
2012 Impala MileSYN 5w30 AC Delco Filter
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315594 01/07/20 09:36 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Originally Posted by North_Maine
What are the standards used or methods for identifying when an oil may not be what it claims to be? Case in point would be Triax. Amazon reviews are great, lots of seller self-glorification, no API cert but a nice long list of manufacturer's specs it meets, but not endorsed by. I saw another thread here were someone quite pointedly said that the "approvals" should read "None."

Would this be the same case with AMSoil?, Liquimoly? Royal Purple's non-API line?

How do you conclude that an oil is good or not?


Why are you sifting?

Do you have a high performance, offroad application that would require a NON-ILSAC lubricant?

A classic, hot-rodded muscle car with no after treatment devices?

A Honda K24A1 in a '93 civic running a turbo kit with 3ATM boost?

I would look to some VOA to verify claims of ZDP and Moly EP. and see if there has been good reception amoungst certain powersport communities.

Otherwise you likely ain't putting this stuff in your car.

ps. We already know Amsoil and RL have a good rep over decades. So Trust and word of mouth would be the theme.


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#8 60864mi-Subaru Idemitsu 0W20 + SOA Filter
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315598 01/07/20 09:44 AM
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Unfortunately when it is a certification or standard it usually comes down to the reputation of the blender. Most of those are self-certified and are properly reported as "meets requirements." API licensed oils also need to appear on the EOLCS Licensee Directory, so you have that to help you determine if it is actually licensed (including CJ-4). For Cummins CES 20086 there is a way for you to determine if it actually meets the requirements but you need an account to view the listing at:

https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qsol/news/oil_registration.html

You may wish to try registering and see if you get an account.

Approvals can be somewhat easier to verify but not always.The Mercedes-Benz approvals are easy to see on the BeVo website but in this case your product probably does not claim any such approvals.

So as I said earlier it often comes down to reputation. Sometimes a blender or manufacturer deliberately obfuscates the situation as we clearly saw on a recent Amalie PDS. On the other hand, ExxonMobil and a few other manufacturers are crystal clear on what is an actual approval or certification as opposed to what is opinion. Not everyone is so clear however.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315599 01/07/20 09:44 AM
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JustN89 Online Content
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Just throwing this out there, but it looks like Triax is API certified. At least, this one is.

Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5315604 01/07/20 09:48 AM
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North_Maine Offline OP
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[/quote]
Why are you sifting?

Do you have a high performance, offroad application that would require a NON-ILSAC lubricant?

A classic, hot-rodded muscle car with no after treatment devices?

A Honda K24A1 in a '93 civic running a turbo kit with 3ATM boost?

I would look to some VOA to verify claims of ZDP and Moly EP. and see if there has been good reception amoungst certain powersport communities.

Otherwise you likely ain't putting this stuff in your car.

ps. We already know Amsoil and RL have a good rep over decades. So Trust and word of mouth would be the theme.


[/quote]

Why not sift? is it not ok to be curious or ask for some guidance when I don't see a clear answer? I see someone say something as definitive as "its garbage oil" and I just want to know how they come to that conclusion. Isn't the bulk of this forum people sifting?

High performance, no, but offload? yes. Old machinery originally designed to run on Russian diesel or be lubricated with whale blubber? Yes.


2017 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins
2002 Ram 2500 24V Cummins
2018 Ford Expedition
1966 John Deere 3020
1967 John Deere 644a
Kubota G5600 Diesel
Belarus T40
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: North_Maine] #5315606 01/07/20 09:48 AM
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BillyE Online Content
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If it meets the specs in the owners manual, I don't think you'll see any difference between different oils. Except, perhaps if multiple viscosities are recommended, you may see a difference in fuel economy between the different weights.

Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: kschachn] #5315613 01/07/20 09:51 AM
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North_Maine Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Unfortunately when it is a certification or standard it usually comes down to the reputation of the blender. Most of those are self-certified and are properly reported as "meets requirements." API licensed oils also need to appear on the EOLCS Licensee Directory, so you have that to help you determine if it is actually licensed (including CJ-4). For Cummins CES 20086 there is a way for you to determine if it actually meets the requirements but you need an account to view the listing at:

https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qsol/news/oil_registration.html

You may wish to try registering and see if you get an account.

Approvals can be somewhat easier to verify but not always.The Mercedes-Benz approvals are easy to see on the BeVo website but in this case your product probably does not claim any such approvals.

So as I said earlier it often comes down to reputation. Sometimes a blender or manufacturer deliberately obfuscates the situation as we clearly saw on a recent Amalie PDS. On the other hand, ExxonMobil and a few other manufacturers are crystal clear on what is an actual approval or certification as opposed to what is opinion. Not everyone is so clear however.


Good info, thank you!


2017 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins
2002 Ram 2500 24V Cummins
2018 Ford Expedition
1966 John Deere 3020
1967 John Deere 644a
Kubota G5600 Diesel
Belarus T40
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: BillyE] #5315614 01/07/20 09:52 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by BillyE
If it meets the specs in the owners manual, I don't think you'll see any difference between different oils. Except, perhaps if multiple viscosities are recommended, you may see a difference in fuel economy between the different weights.

That's not the question, the question is whether a particular oil actually meets the spec or not.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: JustN89] #5315615 01/07/20 09:53 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Just throwing this out there, but it looks like Triax is API certified. At least, this one is.

Yes for API SN PLUS, but the EOLCS listing shows there are no Triax lubricants that are API CJ-4 licensed. So that's another data point.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: How to sift through the BS Oils? [Re: JustN89] #5315621 01/07/20 09:57 AM
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North_Maine Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Just throwing this out there, but it looks like Triax is API certified. At least, this one is.



It looks like your right!

I was specifically looking at this response regarding their Fleet Supreme 15W-40:

[Linked Image]


2017 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins
2002 Ram 2500 24V Cummins
2018 Ford Expedition
1966 John Deere 3020
1967 John Deere 644a
Kubota G5600 Diesel
Belarus T40
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