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Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: tundraotto] #5316718 01/08/20 12:50 PM
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bulwnkl Offline
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Originally Posted by tundraotto
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
DENSO


From what I have seen of airfilters....DENSO has always been a quality looking one....but I don't have any empirical data.


There’s the rub (in the bold I added).


I use speech recognition frequently. Please excuse any consequent grammatical or typographical errors.
Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5316729 01/08/20 01:04 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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The best filter is the Donaldson PowerCore, however given its lack of availability for most applications without a retrofit, it barely warrants mention here.


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Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5317412 01/09/20 07:39 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Fram is one of the few companies I can think of that have a tiered offering for air filters. Most others just have a one-n-done approach.

There are some various articles out there, often accompanied by rather unscientifically conducted "study", which might give one a false sense of something being "better". I prefer to rely on the UOA; it will tell me if the air filter is doing a decent job. And generally, just about any brand name will suffice well.

There are some studies which do go in-depth and have trustworthy data; of note is the Donaldson "Total Filtration" one (SAE 952557). Yes - it's an older study, but it's one of the better ones and nothing has surpassed it that I'm aware of in recent years. It studies the cumulative effects of air filter, oil filter, fuel filter on overall engine health. The greatest contributor to wear, by far, is silica ingestion. Hence, the greatest effect one can have to improve engine life is a good air filter. But it does not have to be a super-duper-premium filter; just a decent one. And the greatest influence on ingested contamination (damage from silica) is the environment; how dirty is the air you operate in? If you're in a typical urban/suburban lifestyle, the air around you is fairly clean. If you run in the dusty fields of a large farm or mining operation, the air is much dirtier. Further, changing the air filter too often is a major contributor to increased engine wear. It truly is correct to say that you should leave your air filter in place and not change it often. Even the OEM schedules for air filters are too frequent, but they must post something as an average estimate, and so they defer to the frequent change to avoid heavy ingestion concerns. A better way to discern AF change intervals is to use a typical vacuum gauge; easily bought via many sources. I've installed one in my truck and my Taurus. I no longer have to guess; I know when to change filters (and it appears to be very infrequent at current indications).

Also, pretty much any car/truck from the last few decades is run via monitored fuel injection, and so the air/fuel ratio is always adjusted by the PCM (gas engines for sure, and even some diesels). So the fear of running rich (not enough air due to filter plugging) is a VERY rare occurrence.


You can seek out the "best" (your definition applies here), but frankly I doubt you'd see much if any difference in wear rates, depending upon where you live. My advice is to pick an OEM style filter (style means media construction, not brand) from any brand you loke, and then keep it in place for about 2x the OEM FCI, if you live in a reasonably clean environment.


If you have to just know what is "best", then you'll have to prove it out. You'll have to do a long series of UOAs, tracking the Si levels for each choice. Then study the data with statistical analysis. It will take 30 UOAs of each choice to make a fair and accurate prediction. So you can see the challenge here; time and money preclude this ...

Or, just trust the overall anecdotal evidence of a bazillion engines around the world. Most engines can run just fine for 250k+ miles using "normal" filters. Sure, you can drive a car further than that, and you can probably use normal filters for that, also. The things that will likely cause the vehicle to leave your possession are either being wrecked, rusted to death, or traded out via sheer boredom with the vehicle; these will happen long before your engine will die from air filter selection. Obviously, very low quality filters will compromise the effects I speak of. But decent brand name filters will carry the vehicle a very far distance, especially if you don't change it too frequently.


Last edited by dnewton3; 01/09/20 07:49 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5322806 01/14/20 08:47 PM
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Al Offline
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Fram Ultra. 20 microns at 99%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK_hMFIBva8

Seems like a no brainer.


Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5332417 01/26/20 05:55 AM
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Olas Offline
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Mann - 99.9% at 4 microns.

Why do other brands even exist when this is available??

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5332478 01/26/20 08:41 AM
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adams355 Offline
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We don't all drive shopping trolley cars, I have had a few mini freakouts using the K&N lol but I need the air, slightly dirty or not. You know the turbo trend now is to not run an air filter at all because it looks crap sitting in the turbo. I don't know how long this fad will last but its been going a long while now especially at the drags.

There is also the AEM filters which are suppose to be at 98.4 percent efficiency and a cumulative efficiency of 99.4 percent down to 1 micron of particulate. However some have mentioned online that they are still too restrictive after swapping out their K&N's

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5336257 01/30/20 10:18 AM
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Farnsworth Offline
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The throttle body or carb opening determines max air flow the engine intake can ask for. An air filter is way more than needed in air flow until it clogs. A KN flows no more than any other air filter when new because both are far over size compared to the throttle opening. Maybe this seems obvious, but people seem to think the air filter type makes the engine get more air.

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5336301 01/30/20 11:09 AM
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wemay Offline
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They do flow more air with performance air filters and filter just fine as well...









19 VW Passat Wolfsburg TSI: Castrol Edge Pro LL IV Fe 0W20 + VW oil filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5W30 + H/K oil filter
Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Clubber_Lang] #5336329 01/30/20 11:44 AM
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eyeofthetiger Offline
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I recently got a Fram TGA3901 (Tough Guard) to replace a Fram CA3901 (Extra Guard). The TGA costs $14 vs $7 for the CA. The TGA seems to have a more substabtial media, and is lightly oiled. They both recommend a 12,000 mile interval, but I think I can at least double that on the TGA with no problem.

Last edited by eyeofthetiger; 01/30/20 11:44 AM.
Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Farnsworth] #5336411 01/30/20 01:36 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Maybe this seems obvious, but people seem to think the air filter type makes the engine get more air.


Air filters are flow restrictive, and that level of restriction will vary based on media flow design and total flow area. Of course, filtering efficiency can be lowered for flow increase unless the filter area is increased while maintaining efficiency. Most high performance air filter kits employ larger than stock air filters to increase flow while maintaining high efficiency.

Lower flow restriction means more potential flow and cylinder air charge into a NA engine. Keep in mind, this difference is mostly seen at WOT. Lots of engines gain some decent HP (at WOT) by simply installing a better flowing air filter and intake tube up to the throttle body.

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: ZeeOSix] #5336725 01/30/20 07:54 PM
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Farnsworth Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Maybe this seems obvious, but people seem to think the air filter type makes the engine get more air.


Air filters are flow restrictive, and that level of restriction will vary based on media flow design and total flow area. Of course, filtering efficiency can be lowered for flow increase unless the filter area is increased while maintaining efficiency. Most high performance air filter kits employ larger than stock air filters to increase flow while maintaining high efficiency.

Lower flow restriction means more potential flow and cylinder air charge into a NA engine. Keep in mind, this difference is mostly seen at WOT. Lots of engines gain some decent HP (at WOT) by simply installing a better flowing air filter and intake tube up to the throttle body.


Any air filter you can buy for your car has far more area than the throttle opening is the gist of what I said. I am pretty sure they design it that way so you can drive with a pretty dirty air filter and the intake stroke is pulling in all the air it can.

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Farnsworth] #5336730 01/30/20 07:56 PM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Maybe this seems obvious, but people seem to think the air filter type makes the engine get more air.


Air filters are flow restrictive, and that level of restriction will vary based on media flow design and total flow area. Of course, filtering efficiency can be lowered for flow increase unless the filter area is increased while maintaining efficiency. Most high performance air filter kits employ larger than stock air filters to increase flow while maintaining high efficiency.

Lower flow restriction means more potential flow and cylinder air charge into a NA engine. Keep in mind, this difference is mostly seen at WOT. Lots of engines gain some decent HP (at WOT) by simply installing a better flowing air filter and intake tube up to the throttle body.


Any air filter you can buy for your car has far more area than the throttle opening is the gist of what I said. I am pretty sure they design it that way so you can drive with a pretty dirty air filter and the intake stroke is pulling in all the air it can.


Yup, and this can be easily checked with a vacuum gauge.


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Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: Farnsworth] #5336925 01/31/20 12:09 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Maybe this seems obvious, but people seem to think the air filter type makes the engine get more air.


Air filters are flow restrictive, and that level of restriction will vary based on media flow design and total flow area. Of course, filtering efficiency can be lowered for flow increase unless the filter area is increased while maintaining efficiency. Most high performance air filter kits employ larger than stock air filters to increase flow while maintaining high efficiency.

Lower flow restriction means more potential flow and cylinder air charge into a NA engine. Keep in mind, this difference is mostly seen at WOT. Lots of engines gain some decent HP (at WOT) by simply installing a better flowing air filter and intake tube up to the throttle body.


Any air filter you can buy for your car has far more area than the throttle opening is the gist of what I said. I am pretty sure they design it that way so you can drive with a pretty dirty air filter and the intake stroke is pulling in all the air it can.


I was addressing the "filter type makes the engine get more air" comment ... not the throttle body area vs filter area. Just as the videos posted by wemay above show, even the same sized (OEM filter box) drop-ins can flow better than others.

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: eyeofthetiger] #5337008 01/31/20 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by eyeofthetiger
I recently got a Fram TGA3901 (Tough Guard) to replace a Fram CA3901 (Extra Guard). The TGA costs $14 vs $7 for the CA. The TGA seems to have a more substabtial media, and is lightly oiled. They both recommend a 12,000 mile interval, but I think I can at least double that on the TGA with no problem.


That seems like a good reason to not buy a Fram air filter. They recommend changing their brand of filters every 12,000 miles but most car manufacturers have a service interval of 30,000 miles on the air filter. Fram is confident their filter will last about 1/3 as long as an OEM filter.

Re: Air Filter with best Filtration [Re: ZeeOSix] #5337157 01/31/20 10:01 AM
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Farnsworth Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Maybe this seems obvious, but people seem to think the air filter type makes the engine get more air.


Air filters are flow restrictive, and that level of restriction will vary based on media flow design and total flow area. Of course, filtering efficiency can be lowered for flow increase unless the filter area is increased while maintaining efficiency. Most high performance air filter kits employ larger than stock air filters to increase flow while maintaining high efficiency.

Lower flow restriction means more potential flow and cylinder air charge into a NA engine. Keep in mind, this difference is mostly seen at WOT. Lots of engines gain some decent HP (at WOT) by simply installing a better flowing air filter and intake tube up to the throttle body.


Any air filter you can buy for your car has far more area than the throttle opening is the gist of what I said. I am pretty sure they design it that way so you can drive with a pretty dirty air filter and the intake stroke is pulling in all the air it can.


I was addressing the "filter type makes the engine get more air" comment ... not the throttle body area vs filter area. Just as the videos posted by wemay above show, even the same sized (OEM filter box) drop-ins can flow better than others.


Did they do reference tests with no air filter several times? Was at WOT all the time? If the stock filter does restrict at very high throttle opening and rpm Nissan should put a larger air filter. There are other car companies that design the air filter to be far in excess of needed air. Look at it this way. Go to a six foot wide window and take a big breath, then a one foot window, You get the same intake from each size window.

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