A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by dnewton3

I do believe Valvoline is on the cusp of a violation of the M/M Act because they do not make it conspicuously known that the Maxlife ATF product has no warranty. - I'm not an attorney but i play one on the internet, something tells me compliance will hinge upon what constitutes "conspicuous" and before you convict Valvoline, have you perused every single page of the Valvoline site to ensure there's no "get out of jail free" card?



I find it perplexing that many people here would argue about filter warranties, and then ignore this topic as if it has no consequences. What an odd bunch of hypocrites some BITOGers are ... - I don't think the topic's being ignored, rather the thread is not going the way you thought it would? Fwiw, ty for pointing this out and it's "interesting" Valvoline doesn't offer a warranty on their consumer products (they do on their "pro" series) but it's doubtful I'll stop using ML after all these years. Real life results are more meaningful to me than some lawyerly worded "warranty" and ML has treated my car right since coming out from warranty nearly 70k years ago. I'm convinced Valvoline knows what they're doing..so unless you use the wrong ATF, lubricant related failures are just exceedingly rare.

 

[JustN89]

Interesting. I guess my first thought is that a company can stand behind something, yet still not offer a warranty on it, especially when they make a point to say that if you're vehicle recommends a licensed product that you use their licensed product- not the Multi-Vehicle ATF. Those licensed products do offer a warranty by Valvoline, as they are licensed to accomplish the job.


What I find even more interesting is that we care when a warranty is not offered, yet discredit products that don't have a license but do offer a warranty (See: Amsoil, the first that comes to mind).

 

[4WD]

This is a Castrol MV I put in my Z71 yesterday (also in our Ford Fusion) … used exclusively in my 2010 GMC

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Is Warren oil skirting the M-M Act? Their SuperTech oil/atf makes neither an expressed warranty nor disclaims any implied warranty?? Or are we misinterpreting the intent of the M-M Act? Seems like it's total anarchy out there!...‚

Originally Posted by 4WD
This is a Castrol MV I put in my Z71 yesterday (also in our Ford Fusion) … used exclusively in my 2010 GMC

Chevron also warranty's ALL their products. If you can show their product did it (not including misuse), they'll cover it.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Is Warren oil skirting the M-M Act? Their SuperTech oil/atf makes neither an expressed warranty nor disclaims any implied warranty?? Or are we misinterpreting the intent of the M-M Act? Seems like it's total anarchy out there!...‚

Hmm. Curious on that one. Then again there's no warranty left on my vehicles, and any damage that suddenly occurs would be impossible to determine if it was oil related or age related. IMO.

I've never thought to buy oil or filters on the basis of any warranty they offered. I just "assumed" that they would do their job, and any issues encountered would be the fault of something else (age, time, random parts failure).

 

[mclasser]

I feel like this is common with any automotive fluid, like those one million or 500k mile engine "warranties" certain motor oils offer. If your engine grenades, good luck a) proving that oil caused it, and b) getting the company to pay you anything.

As for VML ATF - I think it's a great product for Dexron applications, but IME, not so much for Hondas that take DW-1. I drained it out of my Pilot pretty quickly after it made the shifts wonky. Kind of funny how they claim it's DW-1 spec'd on their site but their many bottle iterations still don't list it....

 

[Dave9]

No sane manufacturer of anything like this is going to warranty their product in the larger product you put it in, only that it performs as intended, aka fit for use.

There may be a manufacturer warranty on your refrigerator, but if it leaks and you need new freon (or R-whatever they're using these days), does the freon manufacturer warranty that your fridge will have no problems, are they going to pay to patch the leak that caused this?

I do see how an implied warranty could be misconstrued but it seems like pushing for something the manufacturer of the *additive* never intended, nor did most people think it was implied as a we'll-fix-your-vehicle type warranty, except possibly that the product should not cause damage due to being unfit for the application.

 

[JMJNet]

This is a good discussion and thank you for pointing it out.

I think the only fault that Valvoline did not do is state the fact that there is no warranty or they will not pay if there is failure.

Challenge is, for example, the Mobil warranty said "Lubricant Failure".
How do you proof that it is a "lubricant failure" not a defective transmission which is a higher probability is some car/makes/model?
So, whethere a company will pay for a warranty become a moot point.
User ended up having to pay anyway.

I see where people can misuse it.
Say, I have a car that I know the transmission is about to fail due to whatever reason.
If I know that the ATF brand company will pay for replacement, I just replace the ATF with that particular brand of fluid and then claim the warranty.
So, who has the burden of proof? Can we proof that it was a "lubricant failure" without costing too much money to do it?

Great discussion, anyway.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I see Dave's point, but would also point out that email responses are not always the best source of information, as plenty of responders before have given bad information when called upon. Especially when there are multiple, public notices on official company documents stating the opposite.

I believe Mobil and Castrol's warranties likely fall into the same category as some mentioned- "prove our fluid caused the failure, and we'll make you whole"

Absent that the fluid itself caused the failure, you're out of luck even though there is a written warranty.

Now, for some reason, I'm feeling extremely understanding, so let me close with this: Valvoline's PDS says they will "Stand behind it", they have a statement posted above that says all Valvoline products are warranted, and the only way you found out that they allegedly (not a knock at Dave) do not warranty MaxLife was to email them after you purchased the product.... I'm going to venture a guess and say that if you had a transmission failure that was caused by the fluid, and sued Valvoline, you could easily convince a jury of your peers that the statements on the jug, PDS, and website, most certainly do "imply" that Valvoline warranties their products, and that a reasonable person would conclude same facts.

I'm willing to bet if there was a good chance the fluid caused it, Valvoline would cave in long before you got to the court part.

 

[CKN]

UNBELIEVABLE.................

 

[nthach]

For me, most things I've put MaxLife in seemed to work fine - but I will only use genuine fluids for things that call for it. I've haven't tried out MaxLife in anything that takes Toyota WS personally. I've used it in two T-IV applications and I didn't like the shift feel, one long departed car liked Castrol IMV better.

A Nissan I worked on for the adopted family has ML in it now and it calls for Nissan-Matic J/S and so far, so good. I'm tempted to try it in a Subaru HP application for a friend.

I feel MaxLife will be fine in any Dex/Merc(LV) application, Nissans don't seem to care either. I'm sure it's fine with WS but I think things that take a HV fluid should stick with that fluid(Merc V/T-IV) and anything German that calls for special Shell/XOM fluids such as Mercedes/ZF gearboxes should get OEM or an approved fluid.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Well, I'd expect that at the least, they'd mirror the warranty statement from the website, IE, if I e-mailed Mobil, I'd expect a link to what I linked, as well as the same verbiage

This is a case of the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing....

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by 4WD
This is a Castrol MV I put in my Z71 yesterday (also in our Ford Fusion) … used exclusively in my 2010 GMC

In both cases, Castrol's ATF is licensed and approved by Ford and GM. If the vehicle is under warranty, there will be no disputing that a "proper" ATF was used. The automaker can't claim the wrong fluid was used. Beyond the OEM's warranty, cross your fingers, have all of your ducks in a row, and hope for the best !

 

[bulwnkl]

When you asked every other ATF marketer about their aftermarket fluid warranties, what were their replies to you?

What about when you contacted the auto manufacturers and asked them this question about their own-branded ATFs?

I don't argue that Valvoline offers an express warranty on the fluid itself. I ask whether anyone else does, and if they don't, whether they advertise their lack of warranty on the fluid itself in a conspicuous manner.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by bulwnkl
When you asked every other ATF marketer about their aftermarket fluid warranties, what were their replies to you?

What about when you contacted the auto manufacturers and asked them this question about their own-branded ATFs?

I don't argue that Valvoline offers an express warranty on the fluid itself. I ask whether anyone else does, and if they don't, whether they advertise their lack of warranty on the fluid itself in a conspicuous manner.


I posted what Mobil claims for their ATF earlier in the thread.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi
So Valvoline 'stands by it's products' right up to the point you may need them to. Sweet!


Exactly.

And for all those saying that their anecdotal experiences mean a warranty is not needed they are full of it. It's only not an issue until it's one of your investments that fails
and will costs thousands of dollars to repair.

This is why I would never use that Valvoline product in my automatic transmissions.

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted by dogememe
I think you're overthinking this. You can read here on this forum many people are running this ATF in a variety of applications for hundreds of thousands of miles. And think of how many shops and VIOC locations use this in various cars all day every day. If Maxlife ATF killed their transmission we'd hear about it!

If they offered a warranty on their website people would take advantage of it. Put Maxlife in a failing tranny then boom $$$$.

But I suspect if you had a healthy transmission fail due to Maxlife ATF Valvoline would want to hear about it and work with you on a resolution.

Agreed.I wouldn't get too worked up over it. "No warranty expressed or implied." Is one of those legalisms that just rolls off the tongue without too much thought. To the extent that the guy even thought about it he probably thought that they were being set up for a transmission claim of some kind as dogememe suggests.

In the first place you would be hard pressed to prove a failure unless the vat of fluid were absolutely defective in some way. I suspect there's some minimal compliance check based on manufacturers certifications, but that's about it.

At the other extreme I don't put too much stock in the 500k "warranty" stamped on the side of my engine oil jug, either. Valvoline has been at it for a million years and this is their only business.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Tikka
Hi
So Valvoline 'stands by it's products' right up to the point you may need them to. Sweet!


Exactly.

And for all those saying that their anecdotal experiences mean a warranty is not needed they are full of it. It's only not an issue until it's one of your investments that fails
and will costs thousands of dollars to repair.

This is why I would never use that Valvoline product in my automatic transmissions.

I agree, it's all fine and dandy until the problem is with "your" vehicle. I never gave Valvoline much business, and with my current fleet they won't be getting any of it.

 

[PimTac]

Are there any stories here of Mobil 1 or Castrol or whoever granting warranty payment after their product failed?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Are there any stories here of Mobil 1 or Castrol or whoever granting warranty payment after their product failed?

One would guess that there are close to zero incidences of equipment failure due to those products, if any at all. The only ones I could imagine would be where the fluid was formulated improperly or some other error that missed their quality control.