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A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF #5314558 01/06/20 08:40 AM
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dnewton3 Offline OP
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I want to express that I'm not trying to start a war of words, nor am I looking for legal advice.
This thread is being started because I believe there is fair value in having the BITOG community aware of a recent conversation I've had with Valvoline product support regarding the Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF.

Here is the PI sheet straight from their site:
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1
I quote: "Valvoline stands behind all its products, including Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF."

I wrote to them via their contact tool on their website because I wanted to know about their warranty statement. Here is specifically what I asked: (taken from their email reply dated 12-19-19)
(quoting Newton) - "I am wanting to know your specific warranty coverage for your ATF products; specfically the Maxlife ATF. I do not see any written warranty statement anywhere on your website. Can you please direct me to the specific page, or send me an email copy of the warranty."
(quoting Valvoline product support) - "David, thank you for your reply. We do not offer a written or implied warranty for MaxLife ATF."

Sooooooo ..... no warranty whatsoever; not written nor implied. (note that there are two kinds of warranty; implied or express. I believe they mean to state that neither implied or express warranty is offered, because written warranty is indicative of an express warranty).

Seems odd to me that a company which claims it "Stands behind all its products" is saying they will not warrant the product nor the product effects on your vehicle.

And the grand irony is that they are using the very FTC site information to induce you into buying their product (see their inclusive note about tie-in sales on the PI sheet), and yet that very same FTC site clearly states that they have a responsibility to tell us in a conspicuous manner that they offer no warranty.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law
"If you do not offer a written warranty, the law in most states allows you to disclaim implied warranties. However, selling without implied warranties may well indicate to potential customers that the product is risky—low quality, damaged, or discontinued—and therefore, should be available at a lower price.

In order to disclaim implied warranties, you must inform consumers in a conspicuous manner, and generally in writing, that you will not be responsible if the product malfunctions or is defective. It must be clear to consumers that the entire product risk falls on them. You must specifically indicate that you do not warrant "merchantability," or you must use a phrase such as "with all faults," or "as is." A few states have special laws on how you must phrase an "as is" disclosure. (For specific information on how your state treats "as is" disclosures, consult your attorney.
)
"

I see no such claim of a conspicuous nature that they don't offer warranty coverage. The ONLY way I found out was to reach out to them. But they are required by law to tell the consumer in a notable and prominent fashion (hence "conspicuous"); presumably at the point of sale or in their product literature. This lack of any warranty coverage is neither on their product bottle, website, nor the PI sheet. In fact, I would say they are directly misleading in that they claim the product is suitable for use in a vast range of applications, and they say they will "stand behind" the product, but the reality is that they offer zero warranty.

Now, to be clear, there is no claim of Maxlife MV ATF to be licensed by any of the various applications. That's not unique, as many aftermarket lube makers also don't seek out licenses by the OEMs. But to claim they stand behind the product, and yet hide the fact that they will not warrant the product, is to me, totally disingenuous and possibly illegal.

I am not saying that Maxlife MV ATF is unsuitable or a bad product. I am reiterating what they told me; Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF has no product warranty; implied or written (express).

Again - I am not seeking any legal advice, nor advocating for any legal actions.
I am only informing the BITOG community that should they chose to use Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF, they will have no warranty coverage whatsoever.
If you so decide, you might reach out to Valvoline and seek to validate my claims/statements as being true. Ask them yourself; don't take my word for it.




I believe I've bought my last bottle of any Valvoline product.


Dave.



Last edited by dnewton3; 01/06/20 08:50 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314564 01/06/20 08:49 AM
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dogememe Offline
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I think you're overthinking this. You can read here on this forum many people are running this ATF in a variety of applications for hundreds of thousands of miles. And think of how many shops and VIOC locations use this in various cars all day every day. If Maxlife ATF killed their transmission we'd hear about it!

If they offered a warranty on their website people would take advantage of it. Put Maxlife in a failing tranny then boom $$$$.

But I suspect if you had a healthy transmission fail due to Maxlife ATF Valvoline would want to hear about it and work with you on a resolution.

Last edited by dogememe; 01/06/20 08:51 AM.

2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~102K Miles: Castrol Magnatec 5W-20, Wix Filter.
2001 Chevy Suburban 5.3 ~290K Miles: Valvoline Maxlife 10W-30, ACDelco Filter.
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314567 01/06/20 08:55 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Valvoline's entire statement is:

Quote
Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF. Use of MaxLifeMulti-Vehicle ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission issues while using MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF in a Valvoline recommended application, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance.

Therefore they would assert the vehicle warranty is not rendered invalid and a separate warranty by them is unnecessary. From that statement it appears as though Valvoline will assist with this assertion.

I'd guess Valvoline knows the fluid will not be the root cause of some failure.

http://www.flagshiphawaii.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/US_Val_ML_ATF_EN.pdf


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 430K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314568 01/06/20 08:56 AM
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dnewton3 Offline OP
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I am not "overthink" anything.
I made statement based upon my query, and their response.
It seems evident to me that they are in violation of the M/M Act in that they do not conspicuously note their lack of warranty coverage.

Would the help with costs in the event of a failure? Maybe or maybe not. There are other products which do not leave me twisting in the wind to find that our after the fact.

Caveat Emptor.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dogememe] #5314570 01/06/20 08:58 AM
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pbm Offline
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Originally Posted by dogememe
I think you're overthinking this. You can read here on this forum many people are running this ATF in a variety of applications for hundreds of thousands of miles. And think of how many shops and VIOC locations use this in various cars all day every day. If Maxlife ATF killed their transmission we'd hear about it!

If they offered a warranty on their website people would take advantage of it. Put Maxlife in a failing tranny then boom $$$$.

But I suspect if you had a healthy transmission fail due to Maxlife ATF Valvoline would want to hear about it and work with you on a resolution.




I agree. I've used Maxlife in Hyundais, Toyota's and Honda's without issue.
I would think that if it could be proven that using Maxlife was the reason for the transmission failure...Valvoline would "do the right thing". Of
course, proving it is the hard part....


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314572 01/06/20 08:58 AM
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Tikka Offline
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Hi
So Valvoline 'stands by it's products' right up to the point you may need them to. Sweet!

Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314575 01/06/20 09:02 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
It seems evident to me that they are in violation of the M/M Act in that they do not conspicuously note their lack of warranty coverage.

[Linked Image]


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 430K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314578 01/06/20 09:04 AM
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PimTac Offline
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Has there ever been a case where the transmission fluid caused a failure? In this respect include all fluid manufacturers and this should not include the wrong fluid being used.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314580 01/06/20 09:06 AM
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Sayjac Offline
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Caveat noted. However with 150k+ miles and ~9 years ML MV anecdotal experience in 2 Honda vehicles with original trans, won't change my practices.

Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: kschachn] #5314581 01/06/20 09:06 AM
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dnewton3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by dnewton3
It seems evident to me that they are in violation of the M/M Act in that they do not conspicuously note their lack of warranty coverage.

[Linked Image]

What's your point? That is "tie in sales" related. Tie-in sales is about OEMs trying to induce OEM branded products for warranty coverage.

My thread (this thread) is about Valvoline product warranty, not the OEM vehilce warranty.

That is an important and distinct difference.



Valvoline has the right to not offer any warranty; they choose not to offer any. But ...
Valvoline is required by the M/M Act to conspicuously notify the consumer of that fact PRIOR to sale. Most any state or federal Atty General is going to deduce that means it must be information readily available at the point of sale or easily discerned prior to purchase. There is ZERO statement by Valvoline that they won't warranty THEIR product on their website, in their PI sheet, or on their product bottle.

Last edited by dnewton3; 01/06/20 09:08 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: PimTac] #5314583 01/06/20 09:08 AM
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drtyler Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Has there ever been a case where the transmission fluid caused a failure? In this respect include all fluid manufacturers and this should not include the wrong fluid being used.



From a few years ago, although who knows if it was the Maxlife, filter installation, or GM transmission:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2879800/1

Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314585 01/06/20 09:08 AM
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kschachn Offline
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The tie-in part doesn't mean much to me but what about the rest? It says that the use of Valvoline MaxLife ATF will not void the manufacturer warranty (which by the way, is similar to what Castrol says for their multi-vehicle ATF).


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 430K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: dnewton3] #5314586 01/06/20 09:08 AM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Interesting... Question for you:
Do other ATF manufacturers warrant their fluid?
I honestly don't know; just curious as a comparison.
It seems it would be difficult to do, as one might service a worn transmission and blame the fluid for failure.

I understand you are not commenting on Maxlife quality here, only their warranty or lack of.
Thanks for that.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
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2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: PimTac] #5314590 01/06/20 09:11 AM
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dnewton3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Has there ever been a case where the transmission fluid caused a failure? In this respect include all fluid manufacturers and this should not include the wrong fluid being used.


Ever? Probably so. But it's admittedly rare indeed.
But the same could be said of filters; we don't see them causing mass failures. And yet the major filter makers have written warranties (typically limited).

What is the extension of logic here, that warranty really isn't necessary? So you'd buy a refrigerator, car or hot tub with no warranty because there's no massive failure rate?

Last edited by dnewton3; 01/06/20 09:11 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: A word of caution regarding Valvoline Maxlife ATF [Re: JeffKeryk] #5314591 01/06/20 09:11 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Interesting... Question for you:
Do other ATF manufacturers warrant their fluid?
I honestly don't know; just curious as a comparison.
It seems it would be difficult to do, as one might service a worn transmission and blame the fluid for failure.

I understand you are not commenting on Maxlife quality here, only their warranty or lack of.
Thanks for that.

ExxonMobil has a warranty, as does Amsoil. Others might but I didn't check. Of course, the failure always has to be due to the fluid which is never going to happen.


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 430K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
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