Recent Topics
(3) 5-quart + Fixd ODB-II reader for $40.50+tax
by wkcars - 04/03/20 09:57 PM
Tesla Crushing It
by JeffKeryk - 04/03/20 08:42 PM
Pacific Valley in Big Sur with the E46
by SLO_Town - 04/03/20 08:33 PM
I drove a Delta pilot to the airport today
by 14Accent - 04/03/20 07:41 PM
ALUMINUM BLACK™ metal finish touch-up pen
by vavavroom - 04/03/20 07:28 PM
Strut leak
by ford46guy - 04/03/20 06:30 PM
Orifice tube backwards, now can’t reach it
by gallydif - 04/03/20 06:14 PM
Bone creeper?
by JHZR2 - 04/03/20 05:58 PM
Wrangler TJ Engine Oil
by TJim - 04/03/20 04:53 PM
Virgin XG3600 cut open
by bullwinkle - 04/03/20 04:30 PM
Windows Update and Shutdown update confusion
by simple_gifts - 04/03/20 04:29 PM
Mildew Smell in AC System
by painfx - 04/03/20 04:17 PM
M1-113A CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude - 04/03/20 03:56 PM
MC FL500S 7,000 miles CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude - 04/03/20 03:43 PM
USS Theodore Roosevelt
by BMWTurboDzl - 04/03/20 03:42 PM
2020 Subaru Forester Base
by wagsrk08 - 04/03/20 03:41 PM
New Rislone Hy-per Fuel Product?
by Jackson_Slugger - 04/03/20 03:38 PM
Rislone New Gas Hy-per Cleaner Rebate
by Jackson_Slugger - 04/03/20 03:33 PM
2003 GM 6.0 LQ4 Oil Pan/Rear Main Leak, which oil
by apollo18 - 04/03/20 03:15 PM
FRAM Extra Guard PH16 CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude - 04/03/20 03:11 PM
Newest Members
Peacock, Agauth12, PatGN, Fjordman95, TJim
71086 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (antonmnster, 01rangerxl, 4WD, 53' Stude, 55hambone, amblerman, 12 invisible), 1,831 guests, and 19 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics303,551
Posts5,237,304
Members71,086
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 6 of 7 1 5 6 7
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: PWMDMD] #5313757 01/05/20 10:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 224
N
N Heat Offline
Offline
N
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
[quote=joekingcorvette]
Brand matters with these new fangled engines.


Do tell...

I guess Im small minded. Could you decipher how an oil is superior? Thats what Valvoline says about their HM oil. Superior to what? Superior to M1, Havoline, PP ? Tell me also about their thick anti wear film while your at it. Propaganda sells.

Last edited by N Heat; 01/05/20 10:11 AM.
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: N Heat] #5313784 01/05/20 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,559
C
caprice_2nv Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,559
Originally Posted by N Heat
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
[quote=joekingcorvette]
Brand matters with these new fangled engines.


Do tell...

I guess Im small minded. Could you decipher how an oil is superior? Thats what Valvoline says about their HM oil. Superior to what? Superior to M1, Havoline, PP ? Tell me also about their thick anti wear film while your at it. Propaganda sells.


For the majority of vehicles that are going to be kept an average amount of time, I agree that the differences would be nearly negligible... that's why when I change the oil on my girlfriend's sister's Ford edge 3.5 I use whatever the cheapest oil on sale is available in the correct grade. She is not going to spend any major amount of money on repairs again (already had a $7000 transmission replacement when it was newer), so I know that engine failure will only occur if the internal water pump starts leaking coolant and no oil will save it from that.

However my vehicles are 35 and 36 years old (the 35 year old car has a 42 year old never rebuilt engine) so while I don't obsess over it as much as I used to I still always try to pick the best oil on sale. They aren't all exactly the same and after 42 years and hundreds of thousands of miles using higher end synthetic oils versus cheap conventional might make a difference in a few years extra life out of the engine.

A free junkyard engine that was 30 years old when I installed it, I hoped to get a few years out of it and then rebuild it, but 12 years later it's running fine and I don't have $ to rebuild it anyway. If I used cheap oil and it had to rebuilt it a couple of years ago I would never know if it would have been a different outcome with synthetic oil or not.

I'm not saying it does make a difference or not, but I feel more comfortable using good stuff when I am trying to get 4-5 decades out of an engine. I would also argue that this engine wouldn't have lasted as long as it has without modern oils, whether it be conventional or synthetic, but I've chosen synthetic. The first few years I had it, I used amsoil 10w40, redline, mostly boutique top end oils until I decided I couldn't afford that. Now, it's whatever is on sale (Mobil 1, Castrol, Pennzoil).


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
05 Silverado 1500 4wd - 4.8/4L60E
79 Honda CX500
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: SR5] #5313802 01/05/20 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,000
L
LotI Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,000
Mazda SkyActiv non-turbo motors say you can use anything from 0w-20 to 20w-50 outside of the US. Keep it fresh and appropriate for your climate and drive on!


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450 Cutaway
19 Buick Regal TourX
Retired:
17 VW GTI
17 Mazda6 GT
14 Honda Accord Sport
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: PWMDMD] #5313809 01/05/20 11:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 394
B
BLND1 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 394
Last night I slipped into a black hole of binge watching “dangerous journeys” or something like that on amazon prime. First episode featured a guy driving a 40 year old Mercedes diesel truck across SOMALILAND. 120 degree temps and constant driving with way-over-max-loads. Maintenance was “when it breaks.”

I don’t think they are worried about which oil they are using. Heck the show put cameras on a Toyota pickup that had a shoe for a shock absorber.

Anyway, my point is that by simply changing our oil frequently, we will be light-years ahead of most of the world. Mobil 1 or Castrol? Literally doesn’t matter.


Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5313839 01/05/20 12:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,840
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,840
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?


Exactly.


Not my experience with VVT in many cars and sometimes experimenting with subtle viscosity changes.

You must concede that the open VVT cam phasing is a function of oil viscosity.

They don't "stop working" but they move the torque curve around where an AT may not function well when a converter would require a good torque hit off the bottom to not perform sluggishly.

Now, They may not run in full range variable mode during warmup or at certain temperatures.

when taking viscosity, A 30-grade rarely moves in to 20 grade territory due to thermostat controlled water cooling when hot,'

But, agreed A 20-grade will move into 30 grade territory when cold - but - see above .

No Issues with my older Honda Fit 1.5L No VVT just VTEC


My experience with BMW and FCA products, both which spec wildly different viscosity grades for the same VVT systems indicates the systems themselves aren't sensitive; they can't be due to the ambient temperature issue already noted. FCA however, does use the oil pressure sensor to infer viscosity, which can trigger a code on the engines whose software is programmed for 5w-20. That's not a problem with the system however, it is just part of the programming, and it takes a pretty significant deviation to trigger it. I recall user Clevy was running 0w-40 in his 5.7L and got the code when it was like -35C.

My 6.4L and my wife's 5.7L both have the same VVT system. My 6.4L calls for 0w-40, her 5.7 for 5w-20. My E39 M5 called for an LL01 lube, but earlier M5's, with the same VANOS system, called for 10w-60. Ford also used the same VVT system on the Coyote whether it spec'd 5w-20 or 5w-50.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: N Heat] #5313840 01/05/20 12:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,790
T
Triple_Se7en Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,790
Originally Posted by N Heat
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
[quote=joekingcorvette]
Brand matters with these new fangled engines.


Do tell...

I guess Im small minded. Could you decipher how an oil is superior? Thats what Valvoline says about their HM oil. Superior to what? Superior to M1, Havoline, PP ? Tell me also about their thick anti wear film while your at it. Propaganda sells.

Click on my name
In my profile, click on Member Posts.
It's easy to find similar discussions on this topic. It's all right there.


Keep Your Pistons, Valves & Injectors Clean

19 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI
20 Kia Soul XLine 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Plat. 5W30 / AC Delco PF1127 Ecores
04 Chev Colorado Napa Syn 0w20 & K&N



Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: PWMDMD] #5313847 01/05/20 12:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 6
S
SDGolden Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 6
I have to agree with the OP. I always used Havoline conventional because that's what my dad (40 year master auto tech) always used. He also beat into my head that "oil is cheap, engines are not" ideology and to change it often. Then I found some sweet rebates on name brand full synthetics for about the price of the conventional I always ran and made the switch. Now since I drive an ecoboost that I tow with and knowing they're hard on oil, I have done a lot more research and came to the conclusion that as long as I run a quality synthetic that's SN + rated, it truly does not matter what brand I use. Period. I do still subscribe to the "oil is cheap, engines are not" thoughts when it comes to OCI, and change it often, but haven't heard one legitimate argument on how changing more often is less desirable than running to 7 or 10k. My career is in industrial engineering and some of our gearbox oil changes can run well into the thousands of dollars, so it makes sense to do oil sampling and stretch changes out as much as possible. But can't see myself trying to squeeze every last mile out of a $30 oil change when I intend to keep my truck >10 years.

Last edited by SDGolden; 01/05/20 12:30 PM.
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: SDGolden] #5313981 01/05/20 04:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,559
C
caprice_2nv Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,559
Originally Posted by SDGolden
I have to agree with the OP. I always used Havoline conventional because that's what my dad (40 year master auto tech) always used. He also beat into my head that "oil is cheap, engines are not" ideology and to change it often. Then I found some sweet rebates on name brand full synthetics for about the price of the conventional I always ran and made the switch. Now since I drive an ecoboost that I tow with and knowing they're hard on oil, I have done a lot more research and came to the conclusion that as long as I run a quality synthetic that's SN + rated, it truly does not matter what brand I use. Period. I do still subscribe to the "oil is cheap, engines are not" thoughts when it comes to OCI, and change it often, but haven't heard one legitimate argument on how changing more often is less desirable than running to 7 or 10k. My career is in industrial engineering and some of our gearbox oil changes can run well into the thousands of dollars, so it makes sense to do oil sampling and stretch changes out as much as possible. But can't see myself trying to squeeze every last mile out of a $30 oil change when I intend to keep my truck >10 years.


Some people on here seem to feel good when they save a couple coffees $ out of running their oil as long as possible, it's fine if their schedule is that tight that it's hard to squeeze I an oil change...but when they give us cr&p for hurting the environment by draining oil too early and then they upgrade to a new vehicle every 5-10 years (which helps the extended oil changes to not hurt them) they are probably hurting the environment just as much as us changing the oil early because we can do it at home on a weekend and want our car to last 40+ years. Building new cars and scrapping old ones both cause pollution.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
05 Silverado 1500 4wd - 4.8/4L60E
79 Honda CX500
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5314021 01/05/20 05:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,412
G
geeman789 Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,412
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite


... But, agreed A 20-grade will move into 30 grade territory when cold ...




Lets see ...

An average 30 grade oil is around 10-11 cSt at 100*C ( 212*F )

At 0*C ( 32*F ) , so cold, but not super cold, an average 20 grade oil is around 450 + cSt.

That is over FORTY times thicker than the 30 grade at operating temps.

You clearly do not understand how much oil thickens when " cold ... " . And engines still run. You constantly vouch for thin oils in modern engines, but seemingly fail to understand that the oil, for the first 20 minutes or longer after a cold start, is way thicker than spec.

WAYYYYYYYY thicker. And the engines don't just blow up ...

Last edited by geeman789; 01/05/20 05:15 PM.

2011 SUBARU Impreza 5-door manual / 2016 HONDA Pilot / 2011 MAZDA 2 auto
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: geeman789] #5314050 01/05/20 06:07 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 14,650
A
ARCOgraphite Offline
Offline
A
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 14,650
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite


... But, agreed A 20-grade will move into 30 grade territory when cold ...




Lets see ...

An average 30 grade oil is around 10-11 cSt at 100*C ( 212*F )

At 0*C ( 32*F ) , so cold, but not super cold, an average 20 grade oil is around 450 + cSt.

That is over FORTY times thicker than the 30 grade at operating temps.

You clearly do not understand how much oil thickens when " cold ... " . And engines still run. You constantly vouch for thin oils in modern engines, but seemingly fail to understand that the oil, for the first 20 minutes or longer after a cold start, is way thicker than spec.

WAYYYYYYYY thicker. And the engines don't just blow up ...


Oh thanks for teaching me that, I never knew! smile smile smile

Would not you say engines usually blow up from high rpm, low oil pressure, not from seeing somewhat viscous oil during warmup.

But engines, they surely run suboptimal whilst warming up. Did you know that Piston - wall clearance is wider at cold start? MIght that benefit a more viscous oil?

Back to some initial assertion.

I'm talking about after warmup. That a 20 will ill be firmly in the 10-15 cSt range at a typ 175F running fully warmed on a cold day

I've run the experiments on MY cars with VVT that were running "odd" and I've found the right grade for the climate and a good flowing filter made a BIG difference in overall performance.

Non VVT, not so much. I'm sure different manufacturers have different hydraulic logic controls and programming that goes beyond the basic "retard the intake 10 deg at idle", and retard cam 5 deg / 1K rpm above 2500 rpm with low vacuum signal. Maybe they can watch the cam position and adjust the spool to keep the cam where it should be REGARDLESS of viscosity now. I know the 40 grade oil in my VW made the car undriveable. - Or at least to me as a mech E and car guy who know HOW it should run.

And for the Bimmer guys, VANOS is a whole different helical screw mechanism than the garbage cam phasers most manufacturers put on their engines.


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#8 60864mi-Subaru Idemitsu 0W20 + SOA Filter
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: caprice_2nv] #5314058 01/05/20 06:14 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,211
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,211
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv

Some people on here seem to feel good when they save a couple coffees $ out of running their oil as long as possible, it's fine if their schedule is that tight that it's hard to squeeze I an oil change...but when they give us cr&p for hurting the environment by draining oil too early and then they upgrade to a new vehicle every 5-10 years (which helps the extended oil changes to not hurt them) they are probably hurting the environment just as much as us changing the oil early because we can do it at home on a weekend and want our car to last 40+ years. Building new cars and scrapping old ones both cause pollution.

Criticizing someone else's oci as wasteful while one drives a fossil fuel vehicle is pretty rich imo...but I'd imagine these people also believe you can be just a little bit pregnant? 😂


#GlassHouses

Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: ka9mnx] #5314447 01/06/20 07:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 7,754
B
bbhero Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 7,754
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Get ready. Here we go!




^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


This sounds like Shelby Stenga from that logging show on the History channel.... LOL


Last edited by bbhero; 01/06/20 07:01 AM.

Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Cam2 Full synthetic 5w30 Carquest Blue 84356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: PWMDMD] #5314459 01/06/20 07:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,798
B
BMWTurboDzl Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,798
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?


Depends on the individuals definition of quality but you're basically correct. Remember that time(miles) is a major component of oil performance. For example, obviously dino can't go the typical 10k mile OCI but it'll work on a 3k mile OCI.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: PWMDMD] #5314466 01/06/20 07:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,841
A
alarmguy Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,841
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
The longer I read BITOG and the more UOAs I see the more I'm convinced you could use any quality oil in any viscosity for any normal application (possibly excluding track cars or extreme towing, etc) because it just doesn't matter. Honestly, when is the last time you saw any data to suggest oil brand, certs or even viscosity was the cause of any adverse outcome for an engine?


Absolutely wrong,
You cant use any "quality oil" you need to use the correct API oil recommended by the manufacturer of the engine.
So you are right if that is what you mean! (just having fun here playing on words)

All oils of the same API (or any industry accepted standard) are equal in quality and it makes NO difference if it is $2. a quart Super Tech conventional or $12 a quart synthetic boutique oil. Its all the same to the engine and to the manufacturer of the engine, anything else is forum talk and speculation.

Last edited by alarmguy; 01/06/20 07:31 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: It doesn't really matter which oil you use [Re: PWMDMD] #5314516 01/06/20 09:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 681
W
WylieCoyote Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 681
Broad, sweeping statements never pass without argument on this board. One person's "adverse outcome" is another person's "meh, who cares?".

I pay close attention to results posted in this forum, especially when someone is kind enough to post pictures of what their 150,000 mile engine looks like under the valve covers. The trend I've noticed is that the engines fed conventional oil for their entire lives very often have a golden-brown hue to the internals, which is varnish. Conversely, the guys who proudly display their engine internals that have lived their lives on "synthetics" look as if they were just manufactured yesterday, with no hint of gold or brown.

A lot of guys on this board pay no mind to varnish, and perhaps they're correct in their thinking that it does no harm. But not all of us are comfortable with it. I don't want it all over the valve lifters, or inside the cam phasers or anywhere near the timing chain & related components. And I really don't want coking inside my turbocharger.

So no, not every 'quality' oil is equal, depending on your own idea of "adverse outcome" or acceptability. I see no reason to use and oil that will likely turn my engine internals gold, when there are oils available that won't.


2015 GMC Canyon 3.6
2018 Mustang Ecoboost Convertible
2018 Mustang Ecoboost
Page 6 of 7 1 5 6 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™