It doesn't really matter which oil you use

[Bryanccfshr]

Agreed,this premise ignores a natural law. That all oil is thick when cold and thins as it heats.

If it were true, all the short trippers VVT engines would be running awful...because they all run with thick oil.



Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by BLND1

US CAFE requirements. Not Australia.


That's right, it was a AUS bound Toyota so CAFE is a non issue.

On a related note..i had an argument about this very topic with the dealership service kid when i took my van in for the new car freebie oil change. Yes, the oil cap says 5w20 so that's how he wrote up the work order, i told him i wanted 5w30 and he said he was required to go by the cap. I told him that was hogwash and asked him to check the owners manual and with the service mgr...he came back shortly and said he "got approval" to use 5w30. Approval..lmao. it's in the freaking manual, that's all the approval you need. Heck, 10w30 is spec'd in the manual (5w20~10w30). I imagine I'd have given him a coronary had i asked him for that!...‚

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

The recommendation and use of 5W-20 oil predates Cafe, I can post several manuals recommending or at least okaying it's use in the 1960's in winter climates....

 

[Job]

Isn't the oil grading system always updating for some kind of data reason? Less deposits less friction on and on it goes into the future. It's good to think about though thinking is good for the mind makes it last longer. Thanks.

 

[SR5]

Exactly !!

M1 0W20 Viscosity = 44.8 cSt (at 40 degrees C)
GTX 15W40 Viscosity = 14.5 cSt (at 100 degrees C)

And Happy Birthday Bryanccfshr !

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Agreed,this premise ignores a natural law. That all oil is thick when cold and thins as it heats.

If it were true, all the short trippers VVT engines would be running awful...because they all run with thick oil.



Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
The recommendation and use of 5W-20 oil predates Cafe, I can post several manuals recommending or at least okaying it's use in the 1960's in winter climates....


I'll say … Wouldn't that be what Tig used 40 years ago ?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
The recommendation and use of 5W-20 oil predates Cafe, I can post several manuals recommending or at least okaying it's use in the 1960's in winter climates....


I'll say … Wouldn't that be what Tig used 40 years ago ?

It was. I used M1 5-20 in my 1978 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup with the Slant 6. Besides 20 wt oils are not about CAFE.

 

[4WD]

had a 1979 PowerWagon small block V8 … but FiL had the slant 6 … both great engines for the day ~ and the 727 LoadFlite was pretty tough … beat on that that truck 17 years …

 

[ChrisD46]

I have to agree with Triple_Se7en ... My 2017 Sonata GDI 2.4L (non - turbo) beats the heck out of the oil in daily suburban driving . Current fill of QSUD 5W20 is dark with soot at 2,000 miles and that's with using a Fram Ultra oil filter . I very much believe with modern GDI engines , VVT , etc. that oil brand and quality matters thus D1 / Gen 2 rated synthetic oils from SOPUS , M1 , Valvoline or Castrol will be what I will buy with OCI's close to the severe service schedule (I believe these engines dictate that) .
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
I tend to agree with the OP. I do believe you should use the weight recommendation of the owners manual however I believe if you change your oil frequently the vehicle should last a very long time. Probably longer than 99% of the owners out there would ever keep a vehicle. The trick is to start with a very low mileage or well maintained vehicle and go from there. I don't really think it matters if you use a Super Tech synthetic or a Kirkland or a Mobil 1 they all should last a long time. There is a reason they make dozens of oils and it is because everyone has their favorites just like with beers, foods, tires, or anything else consumable or usable. I have seen lots of 20 year old vehicles that have been questionably maintained and they till keep running with less then basic maintenance. That's all folks!

I disagree!
Do you have any idea on how many of today's passenger vehicles are TGDI / GDI? They weren't around USA 20 years ago and few were here 10 years ago.
Brand matters with these new fangled engines. Viscosity / grade matters. SN Plus mattters and Dexos is the strictest cert and that's important to folks that keep their TGDI vehicles from birth until death.

Getting rid of that vehicle prematurely?.... then run whatever housebrand and any viscosity you desire.
I sure would, if that were the case.

 

[DaleRider]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by PWMDMD

Clearly! The vast majority of BITOGers still think oil selection is akin to quantum mechanics.....

Ah, the Quantum; the interconnectedness...


Everyone knows quantum chromodynamics is where it's at!



Naaaa.....it's all in the verbiage on the bottle. Everyone knows this!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Dale
Verbage on the bottle and at their website. The members that don't know this - are the type that would hire a worker that says he has all the correct degrees and the BITOG-member business owner takes his word for it and never comprehends what's missing from the applicant's paper-credentials.
There are many here at BITOG that buy oils in this manner.

Thankfully the big brands offer a broader package of the oil making process and better ingredients that the housebrands can't include (in words) at their website and on their labels.
(example) Slowly read Pennzoil Platinum labels and webpages. Then read your favorite housebrand label and webpage. Only one iota of reader comprehension and brain retention skills is what's required to read the differences between the two products.

Some have these skills - some don't.

 

[ka9mnx]

Get ready. Here we go!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?


Exactly.


Not my experience with VVT in many cars and sometimes experimenting with subtle viscosity changes.

You must concede that the open VVT cam phasing is a function of oil viscosity.

They don't "stop working" but they move the torque curve around where an AT may not function well when a converter would require a good torque hit off the bottom to not perform sluggishly.

Now, They may not run in full range variable mode during warmup or at certain temperatures.

when taking viscosity, A 30-grade rarely moves in to 20 grade territory due to thermostat controlled water cooling when hot,'

But, agreed A 20-grade will move into 30 grade territory when cold - but - see above .

No Issues with my older Honda Fit 1.5L No VVT just VTEC

 

[N Heat]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Brand matters with these new fangled engines.


Do tell...

 

[4WD]

Yeah … my L83's have some of the same parts (AFM lifters ?) as the 5w30 version … but you start reading up on the lubrication system ? it's very automated and GM states these control components were made for the 0w20 they recommend nationwide. That's an advantage of 0w to start with rather than the old school charts with many viscosity options. Once it became "hydraulics" … we should think about it that way (at least under warranty period.)

 

[N Heat]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Brand matters with these new fangled engines.


Do tell...

I guess Im small minded. Could you decipher how an oil is superior? Thats what Valvoline says about their HM oil. Superior to what? Superior to M1, Havoline, PP ? Tell me also about their thick anti wear film while your at it. Propaganda sells.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by N Heat
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Brand matters with these new fangled engines.


Do tell...

I guess Im small minded. Could you decipher how an oil is superior? Thats what Valvoline says about their HM oil. Superior to what? Superior to M1, Havoline, PP ? Tell me also about their thick anti wear film while your at it. Propaganda sells.


For the majority of vehicles that are going to be kept an average amount of time, I agree that the differences would be nearly negligible... that's why when I change the oil on my girlfriend's sister's Ford edge 3.5 I use whatever the cheapest oil on sale is available in the correct grade. She is not going to spend any major amount of money on repairs again (already had a $7000 transmission replacement when it was newer), so I know that engine failure will only occur if the internal water pump starts leaking coolant and no oil will save it from that.

However my vehicles are 35 and 36 years old (the 35 year old car has a 42 year old never rebuilt engine) so while I don't obsess over it as much as I used to I still always try to pick the best oil on sale. They aren't all exactly the same and after 42 years and hundreds of thousands of miles using higher end synthetic oils versus cheap conventional might make a difference in a few years extra life out of the engine.

A free junkyard engine that was 30 years old when I installed it, I hoped to get a few years out of it and then rebuild it, but 12 years later it's running fine and I don't have $ to rebuild it anyway. If I used cheap oil and it had to rebuilt it a couple of years ago I would never know if it would have been a different outcome with synthetic oil or not.

I'm not saying it does make a difference or not, but I feel more comfortable using good stuff when I am trying to get 4-5 decades out of an engine. I would also argue that this engine wouldn't have lasted as long as it has without modern oils, whether it be conventional or synthetic, but I've chosen synthetic. The first few years I had it, I used amsoil 10w40, redline, mostly boutique top end oils until I decided I couldn't afford that. Now, it's whatever is on sale (Mobil 1, Castrol, Pennzoil).

 

[LotI]

Mazda SkyActiv non-turbo motors say you can use anything from 0w-20 to 20w-50 outside of the US. Keep it fresh and appropriate for your climate and drive on!

 

[BLND1]

Last night I slipped into a black hole of binge watching "dangerous journeys" or something like that on amazon prime. First episode featured a guy driving a 40 year old Mercedes diesel truck across SOMALILAND. 120 degree temps and constant driving with way-over-max-loads. Maintenance was "when it breaks."

I don't think they are worried about which oil they are using. Heck the show put cameras on a Toyota pickup that had a shoe for a shock absorber.

Anyway, my point is that by simply changing our oil frequently, we will be light-years ahead of most of the world. Mobil 1 or Castrol? Literally doesn't matter.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Also hydraulic VVT cam phasers in modern engines DO NOT TOLERATE straying from intended viscosity.


That is not true for a number of current production engines. In fact, temperatures affect oil viscosity far more than chosen grade. Do the variable cam timimg components stop working when operating these engines in cold climates?


Exactly.


Not my experience with VVT in many cars and sometimes experimenting with subtle viscosity changes.

You must concede that the open VVT cam phasing is a function of oil viscosity.

They don't "stop working" but they move the torque curve around where an AT may not function well when a converter would require a good torque hit off the bottom to not perform sluggishly.

Now, They may not run in full range variable mode during warmup or at certain temperatures.

when taking viscosity, A 30-grade rarely moves in to 20 grade territory due to thermostat controlled water cooling when hot,'

But, agreed A 20-grade will move into 30 grade territory when cold - but - see above .

No Issues with my older Honda Fit 1.5L No VVT just VTEC


My experience with BMW and FCA products, both which spec wildly different viscosity grades for the same VVT systems indicates the systems themselves aren't sensitive; they can't be due to the ambient temperature issue already noted. FCA however, does use the oil pressure sensor to infer viscosity, which can trigger a code on the engines whose software is programmed for 5w-20. That's not a problem with the system however, it is just part of the programming, and it takes a pretty significant deviation to trigger it. I recall user Clevy was running 0w-40 in his 5.7L and got the code when it was like -35C.

My 6.4L and my wife's 5.7L both have the same VVT system. My 6.4L calls for 0w-40, her 5.7 for 5w-20. My E39 M5 called for an LL01 lube, but earlier M5's, with the same VANOS system, called for 10w-60. Ford also used the same VVT system on the Coyote whether it spec'd 5w-20 or 5w-50.