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Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311231 01/02/20 03:47 PM
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I would call that an uninformed opinion.

Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311232 01/02/20 03:52 PM
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I ran a bunch of SAE 30 (Delo 400) in multiple IDI diesels, and a couple oil consuming gas engines, and didn't have any issues running it-but they were older, non-variable valve timing gasoline engines, and they either had oil pan heaters in cold weather or were idled long enough to get the temperature gauge off the peg before being driven. Remember, in days of old, when SAE 30 was for summer & SAE 20 (or 10 in arctic conditions) for winter? I do (barely)!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: PimTac] #5311234 01/02/20 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by ad244
It would be for a Toyota!




That narrows it down.

VVTi Toyota? No. Old school regular Toyota gas engine, no starting below 35F (or warm it up a couple minutes at high idle before driving? Go for it.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311245 01/02/20 04:09 PM
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bullwinkie; Don't forget that back in the day, mono-grades were blended from group I base oil. Now they are blended from group II base oil "That rival the performance of synthetics". Quote from Chevron sales fax.
(Whatever "synthetic" means.)

Last edited by userfriendly; 01/02/20 04:09 PM. Reason: typo
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311248 01/02/20 04:09 PM
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I would just run a 5w30.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311251 01/02/20 04:11 PM
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Why? Is it that cold where you live?

Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311272 01/02/20 04:27 PM
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I live in a warm climate and I have often thought of running a SAE30 monograde just for the fun of it. Unfortunately whenever I went to buy some, the monograde was never on sale, and it was always much cheaper to buy something like GTX 15W40.

In the US you can get some very nice modern Group II based monogrades with modern additive packages rated API SN or SN-Plus from companies like PYB or Mag-1. I would be all over those.

https://mag1.com/products/passenger-car-motor-oil/monograde-motor-oil/mag-1-sae-30-motor-oil/

Quote
MAG 1 SAE30

INDUSTRY/OEM SPECIFICATIONS

API SN
Approved
API SN Plus
Approved
API SJ, SH, SG, SF
Meets Requirements
API SL
Meets Requirements
API SM
Meets Requirements

TYPICAL PROPERTIES
Boron, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.018

Calcium, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.132

Color
ASTM D1500
3

Flash Point °C
ASTM D92
210

Flash Point °F
ASTM D92
410

Foam Seq. III (Tendency/Stability), mL
ASTM D892 (Opt. A)
0/0

Foam Seq. II (Tendency/Stability), mL
ASTM D892 (Opt. A)
0/0

Foam Seq. I (Tendency/Stability), mL
ASTM D892 (Opt. A)
0/0

Gravity, °API
ASTM D287
29.85

High Temperature Foaming, static foam
ASTM D6082 (Opt A)
10/0

High Temperature / High Shear Vis at 150°C, cP
ASTM D5481
3.38

Magnesium, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.043

Molybdenum, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.004

Nitrogen, wt. %
ASTM D4629
0.086

Noack Volatility, % loss
ASTM D6375
6.1

Phosphorus, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.077

Pour Point °C (°F)
ASTM D5950
-33°C (-27°F)

Specific Gravity @ 60°F (15.6°C)
ASTM D4052
0.877

Sulfated Ash, wt. %
ASTM D874
0.92

Sulfur, wt. %
ASTM D4951
0.3

TBN, mgKOH/g
ASTM D2896
7.0

Viscosity @ 100°C cSt
ASTM D445
10.94

Viscosity @ 40°C cSt
ASTM D445
87.96

Viscosity Index
ASTM D2270
110

Zinc, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.085



For those that ask why, look at the figures above. You have a modern API SN-Plus oil with a modern Ca & Mg detergent package, with 180 ppm Boron, and 40 ppm Moly.

The KV100 is 10.94 cSt, but the HTHS is a massive 3.38 cP, with a fantastic low Noack volatility of only 6.1% in a completely shear stable oil. That’s why !!!

Even the Pour Point of -33°C (-27°F) shows what a modern Group II can do for the cold performance. (But I would still keep application to above freezing. )

These ain’t your grandpa’s monogrades of yesterday.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311293 01/02/20 04:44 PM
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- and a TBN of 7.0

Naah.

What is the advantage? To pay more?

Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311308 01/02/20 05:00 PM
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Delo 400 SAE 30 has a BN (TBN) of 10.1 and PC Duron 8.4 if you need more. UOA on the 40 Duron showed Zn @ 1445.

Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311312 01/02/20 05:07 PM
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Everyone uses 20W-50 in the old aircooled BMW motorcycles because it covers all temp ranges you are likely to use it in. But they also recommend straight 30 between zero and 30 C, right in my temp range. So I ran it last year, and now am back on a synth 20W-50, and can compare oil temps. Sumps temps were cooler with the 30, so even though I was running it at over max recommended ambient temps, the oil was cooler than the 20W-50. Also, nothing came out of my road tube breather...and had to fit a filter with 20W-50 because it was putting a bit of oil out. I'd happily run 30 in anything in my temp zone. It's just a bit hard to find here, apart from lawnmower stuff. Our only boutique blender makes a nice diesel and trans rated 30 I use, but I have to order it in.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite VTwin 20-50
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-30 Castrol Edge
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: tundraotto] #5311342 01/02/20 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tundraotto
- and a TBN of 7.0

Naah.

What is the advantage? To pay more?


I hear you, but to be fair it’s the same TBN as MAG 1 10W30 full synthetic

https://mag1.com/products/passenger...l/mag-1-full-synthetic-10w-30-motor-oil/

Which is the same as SuperTech 10W30 full synthetic, and that did fine in this 6000 mile UOA (2019) from a 2008 KIA Sportage with a finishing TBN of 2.7

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5277530/1


Quote
MAG 1 FULL SYNTHETIC 10W-30

INDUSTRY/OEM SPECIFICATIONS

API SN
Approved
API SN Plus
Approved
ILSAC GF-5
Approved
API SJ, SH, SG, SF
Meets Requirements
API SL
Meets Requirements
API SM
Meets Requirements
Chrysler MS-6395
Meets Requirements
GM 4718M
Meets Requirements
GM 6094M
Meets Requirements
ILSAC GF-4
Meets Requirements

TYPICAL PROPERTIES
Boron, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.018

Calcium, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.132

Cold Cranking Simulator at (°C), cP
ASTM D5293
3884 (-25)

Color
ASTM D1500
3

Flash Point °C
ASTM D92
210

Flash Point °F
ASTM D92
410

Foam Seq. III (Tendency/Stability), mL
ASTM D892 (Opt. A)
0/0

Foam Seq. II (Tendency/Stability), mL
ASTM D892 (Opt. A)
0/0

Foam Seq. I (Tendency/Stability), mL
ASTM D892 (Opt. A)
0/0

Gravity, °API
ASTM D287
33.86

High Temperature Foaming, static foam
ASTM D6082 (Opt A)
20/0

High Temperature / High Shear Vis at 100°C, cP
ASTM D6616
7.17

High Temperature / High Shear Vis at 150°C, cP
ASTM D5481
3.04

Magnesium, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.043

Molybdenum, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.004

Nitrogen, wt. %
ASTM D4629
0.086

Noack Volatility, % loss
ASTM D6375
8.2

Phosphorus, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.077

Pour Point °C (°F)
ASTM D5950
-42°C (-44°F)

Pumping Viscosity at (°C), cP
ASTM D4684
13,900 (-30)

Shear Stability, Final Viscosity in cSt
ASTM D6278
8.99

Specific Gravity @ 60°F (15.6°C)
ASTM D4052
0.8557

Sulfated Ash, wt. %
ASTM D874
0.92

Sulfur, wt. %
ASTM D4951
0.3

TBN, mgKOH/g
ASTM D2896
7.0

Viscosity @ 100°C cSt
ASTM D445
10.14

Viscosity @ 40°C cSt
ASTM D445
61.71

Viscosity Index
ASTM D2270
151

Zinc, wt. %
ASTM D5185
0.085


Notice how the add packages of Mag-1 SAE 30 and Mag-1 10W30 full synthetic look the same. That’s because they probably are, as the package was probably developed as a matrix solution to multiple oils, as this is a more efficient development method.

I would have no problems going 6000 miles on Mag-1 SAE 30, and maybe more with a UOA along the way.

To what advantage ? Higher HTHS, Lower Noack and 100% shear stable as it’s the polymer VII that shears, not the base oil.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311351 01/02/20 05:52 PM
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I bought two quarts of ST SAE HD30. It is SN Plus.
The next Walmart (12 miles) had no mono 30 at all.

Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: SR5] #5311357 01/02/20 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SR5
[
To what advantage ? Higher HTHS, Lower Noack and 100% shear stable as it’s the polymer VII that shears, not the base oil.


Just what I was looking for, thanks!

Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: danez_yoda] #5311424 01/02/20 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by danez_yoda
Few make a SAE30 in synthetic. This means it will shear down and leave deposits like the oils of old compared to a modern group III walmart synthetic.


No, quite the opposite, it's the polymer VII that shears, not the base oil (synthetic or mineral), so a monograde with no VII should be 100% shear stable. Also now that nobody uses rubbish Group I base oils, I think much of the deposits comes from the VII itself.

I would be very happy with a modern SN-Plus rated Group II or Group II+ monograde. In fact that Delo 15W-30 Heavy Duty was probably just that (or close to it) under another name.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: Straight 30w in Hot Climates [Re: ad244] #5311512 01/02/20 08:05 PM
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I don't anymore, but years ago I ran 30wt in many of my vehicles. No problems.

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