D1 / Gen 2 Rated Oils : Cleaning Ability ?

Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
3,806
Location
PNW
Traditionally , Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum headed the list of synthetics known to keep engines clean while lower tier oils (i.e. Quaker State , Castrol , Havoline , Valvoline , etc.) were not especially noted for keeping engines as clean as M1 and PPPP ... With so many synthetic oils now meeting the D1 / Gen 2 specs , would it be safe to say that the delta difference in engine cleaning ability of oils meeting the D1 / Gen 2 specs has closed considerably ? In other words , a D1 / Gen 2 rated oil with a decent oil filter run at a reasonable OCI in an otherwise good operating condition engine are going to clean about the same ? M1 and Penzoil Platinum may still hold a cleaning edge - but not nearly as great as before ... Your thoughts ?
 
I would like to think that sounds reasonable. Though, I'm sure others will have definite opinions on this.
Actually, I'm interested in those opinions!
 
I have not seen a valvatrain picture of folks that run one of the "lesser oils" that showed deposits.

I've seen a few 100K+ mile supertech synthetic valve trains that were squeaky clean though.
 
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
I have not seen a valvatrain picture of folks that run one of the "lesser oils" that showed deposits.

I've seen a few 100K+ mile supertech synthetic valve trains that were squeaky clean though.


This^

All of the modern synthetics clean much better than the oils of a few decades ago. Any Dexos 1 or better (and probably other licenses, too) will keep your engine clean. Instead of brand, a better predictor of cleanliness is whether the oil is changed frequently enough.
 
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
I have not seen a valvatrain picture of folks that run one of the "lesser oils" that showed deposits.

I've seen a few 100K+ mile supertech synthetic valve trains that were squeaky clean though.



I put brand new heads on a GM 3.4, the guy ran VWB 3K OCI and after 2 years it was a mess with varnish and deposits. Franks (demarpaint) Buick had religious 3K OCI by his dad and it looked like crap also on dino, I also saw that with my own eyes.
I have not run dino in anything for over 30 years and never will again.
 
Doesn't every oil mfg make such claims? I mean, you have both Pennzoil and Castrol saying that no other oil keeps engines cleaner as compared to standardized tests..and some of these lubes making such claims are syn blends. And there's evidence that suggests they may be right. Check out the pics in the link below of a Jeep's VT w/125k+ miles on the clock and according to the owner all it's ever seen is PYB every 4~5k miles. After looking at the pics, you tell me if using a Dexos oil would/could have done it better?

Fwiw, I'm not suggesting the GM standard hasn't elevated the quality of virgin product v. oils from yesteryear...but rather I believe such thing as changing the oil and filter on time and addressing any engine issues that promote sludging/deposits, will have a more profound effect on promoting engine cleanliness than whether the oil being used is Dexos approved. (no oil in the world can provide cover for a crappy, poorly maintained, worn engine)...And to further complicate your question, does the soon to be introduced ILSAC GF-6 make this a moot discussion since GF-6, from my understanding, will up the performance bar of all API GF-6 licensed oils to GM's Dexos 1 Gen 2 levels???

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3053533/1
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
I have not seen a valvatrain picture of folks that run one of the "lesser oils" that showed deposits.

I've seen a few 100K+ mile supertech synthetic valve trains that were squeaky clean though.



I put brand new heads on a GM 3.4, the guy ran VWB 3K OCI and after 2 years it was a mess with varnish and deposits. Franks (demarpaint) Buick had religious 3K OCI by his dad and it looked like crap also on dino, I also saw that with my own eyes.
I have not run dino in anything for over 30 years and never will again.



The OP as talking strictly lower cost synthetics not dino.
 
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Traditionally , Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum headed the list of synthetics known to keep engines clean while lower tier oils (i.e. Quaker State , Castrol , Havoline , Valvoline , etc.) were not especially noted for keeping engines as clean as M1 and PPPP ... With so many synthetic oils now meeting the D1 / Gen 2 specs , would it be safe to say that the delta difference in engine cleaning ability of oils meeting the D1 / Gen 2 specs has closed considerably ? In other words , a D1 / Gen 2 rated oil with a decent oil filter run at a reasonable OCI in an otherwise good operating condition engine are going to clean about the same ? M1 and Penzoil Platinum may still hold a cleaning edge - but not nearly as great as before ... Your thoughts ?

You pay an extra $5 for that premium filter, but hesitant to pay an additional $5 for that Mobil-1 and Pennzoil Platinum?

C'mon.
Happy New Year BTW..... enjoy reading your replies / threads.
 
Castrol oil is a lower tier oil with regards to cleanliness? Don't know about that. My M54 at 100k miles, 5k changes.
[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Traditionally , Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum headed the list of synthetics known to keep engines clean while lower tier oils (i.e. Quaker State , Castrol , Havoline , Valvoline , etc.) were not especially noted for keeping engines as clean as M1 and PPPP ... With so many synthetic oils now meeting the D1 / Gen 2 specs , would it be safe to say that the delta difference in engine cleaning ability of oils meeting the D1 / Gen 2 specs has closed considerably ? In other words , a D1 / Gen 2 rated oil with a decent oil filter run at a reasonable OCI in an otherwise good operating condition engine are going to clean about the same ? M1 and Penzoil Platinum may still hold a cleaning edge - but not nearly as great as before ... Your thoughts ?

You pay an extra $5 for that premium filter, but hesitant to pay an additional $5 for that Mobil-1 and Pennzoil Platinum?

C'mon.
Happy New Year BTW..... enjoy reading your replies / threads.


Not even an additional $5, really. Both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil have significant and generous rebates. If you hurry you can buy Pennzoil Platinum in the Euro grades at AZ for $2 a qt., and Rotella Gas is free with rebate...

I also would like to see evidence that Castrol, QS or Valvoline are "lessor oils". They seem to have beefy add packs actually. That's not to say that ST isn't a good oil that will keep engines clean in most applications.....
 
Originally Posted by double vanos
Castrol oil is a lower tier oil with regards to cleanliness? Don't know about that. My M54 at 100k miles, 5k changes.
[Linked Image]


Wow.. you sure you even drive that thing! Looks great... don't change a darn thing....
 
I am still wondering if dexos oils which I think are "designed" to combat lspi in DI engines are as suitable as non-dexos oils for MPFI engines.

I am not talking about cleaning ability but in general, when any product is designed or tweaked to target a specific thing, it may have or cause other side effects.

For example would we have a dexos oil if not for DI engine or a bad design? Would dexos oil be a natural progression ... Would you take a prescription pill if you didn't have any health issues?

I am not against dexos oils and use it in our only DI engine but for our mpfi engines I still don't care.

anyway, the following has been on my list of (low priority) things to research:
If dexos oils would have been a natural progression if not for DI ... or a bandaid (plus other side effects) you don't need for mpfi (or non-turbo DI) engines?
 
didn't the Dexos, SN+ and D1G2 designations each further reduce SAPS rendering them inferior to an original SN for legacy configured engines?..I've been avoiding them.
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer

If dexos oils would have been a natural progression if not for DI ... or a bandaid (plus other side effects) you don't need for mpfi (or non-turbo DI) engines?

Yes, it would have. The motivation for GM developing the Dexos standard didn't involve lspi back in the years leading up to the roll out of D1G1. It mostly had to do with emissions, fuel efficiency and having one unifying standard for oil across all GM models in every country GM's were sold.

This is a good read...

https://www.noln.net/articles/3233-how-did-we-get-to-dexos
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
I have not seen a valvatrain picture of folks that run one of the "lesser oils" that showed deposits.

I've seen a few 100K+ mile supertech synthetic valve trains that were squeaky clean though.



I put brand new heads on a GM 3.4, the guy ran VWB 3K OCI and after 2 years it was a mess with varnish and deposits. Franks (demarpaint) Buick had religious 3K OCI by his dad and it looked like crap also on dino, I also saw that with my own eyes.
I have not run dino in anything for over 30 years and never will again.



The OP as talking strictly lower cost synthetics not dino.


So sue me.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
I have not seen a valvatrain picture of folks that run one of the "lesser oils" that showed deposits.

I've seen a few 100K+ mile supertech synthetic valve trains that were squeaky clean though.



I put brand new heads on a GM 3.4, the guy ran VWB 3K OCI and after 2 years it was a mess with varnish and deposits. Franks (demarpaint) Buick had religious 3K OCI by his dad and it looked like crap also on dino, I also saw that with my own eyes.
I have not run dino in anything for over 30 years and never will again.

You nailed it. Dino, oil top shelf, had my father's Buick internals looking like crap after about 80K miles, with religious 3K or less OCI's. I'll stick with synthetic oils from Pennzoil and XOM.
 
That's a picture of my old 330ci. It had a little over 100k miles when I did the valve cover gasket. All it's life it had either dealer Castrol professional 5w30, or Edge 0w40. While in warranty with free oil changes it was 5k Castrol pro/ 5k Edge 0w40. When the free oil changes stopped, it was edge 0w40 all the way. Sold it with 160k miles on it. Never had to top off between 5k OCIs.
 
Back
Top