Rating lower tiered synthetics?

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pbm

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In what order would you rate these oils in 0w20 grade?

QSUD
Castrol Magnatec
Mobil Super Synthetic
NAPA synthetic
ST Synthetic
Shell Synthetic
Harvest King (by Citgo)
Lubrigold (by the other Warren)

Is it believed that any of these can do 10K in an NA, non DI, engine which isn't known to be hard on oil ….like the 2.5 Duratec in my Escape? Thanks for your opinions...
 
Are these considered 'lower grade' because they don't meet the industry specs of other oils you have in mind?

Or are the considered 'lower grade' because they are marketed differently?

If it's a spec thing, what spec are you looking to meet they the oils listed above come up short on?

Thanks!
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I would not rate them ... they are all more than capable and although your brain might want to distinguish a difference, the engine will not.

In fact, for 10k miles, just about any conventional oil from those same sources would also do fine. The 2.5L Duratec is not picky about lube. I have some older UOAs posted on BITOG on my 2010 Fusion running dino lubes; you can seek them out as proof.


Not knowing what year Escape you have, I can reasonably still estimate that it would have been set for use of either the current or former 5w-20 Ford spec, but every Ford manual I've read also has a statement that if you cannot find Ford approved (licensed) lube, then just use the current API lube (SM or SN depending upon year of your manual). As all those lubes are API licensed, your engine will be just fine. Your brain cares far more than the engine will about brand differences.
 
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They all exist within a very narrow scope with very little differences between them. I doubt you'd be able to see any real world performance difference between any of them outside of a reasonable margin of error. About the only factor you could rank them by is price.

I consider them lower teir because they are minimalistic, with a rather cookie cutter recipe, that aims to meet minimum standards and push product. Everything is cheapened as much as possible, so long as it still meets API, in order to be competitive with one another and make a good profit. They are your bare bones basic recipes.
 
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Regardless of vehicle make … I'd say Dexos is a good minimum standard and several of those will be Dexos approved at a reasonable price point. 0w20 generally requires a good base stock to start with.
 
Well I can't get the bottom/last three, not sure what Shell Syn is so that eliminates them for me. Mobil SS also very uncommon these parts and QSUD 0w20 has become scarce to nil at WM. So that leaves Magnatec, ST Syn and Napa Synthetic. Best current price on rollback ST Syn @14.88, so that best value now. That said, I got some Magnatec on Amazon end of Nov, $12.90/jug with S&S so I grabbed couple jugs. Napa Syn ok too when on sale, but haven't seen it as low priced as the two others.

So while I currently lean Magnatec showing $15.15/jug with S&S for me, lowest price basically wins.

There was HK Citgo anecdote posted recently showing some cello like material in a jug. Thinking that an outlier though.
 
The first two listed in your opening post, would be first choices on my shopping list. You need to be more specific on which one that Shell Synthetic is. I've never seen Formula Shell Synthetic here in S.E. Michigan.
 
Depends on your planned interval. For 10k miles or less, as dnewton3 said any should be good to go (as always a UOA is recommended to be sure with your driving habits)

Beyond a 10k mile interval, with UOA, I'd rank QSUD first as a good longer drain oil; with no data on the other oils at any distance I won't speculate.
 
So, almost a year and a half ago I was overly concerned about the 2.5 Duratec in my 2011 Fusion, through trying to stretch the OCI as far as possible. I needn't not have worried, as the MZR is an amazingly durable engine. So I had emailed Ryan Stark at Blackstone, and he sent me an Excel file with all of their samples taken with the 2.5 Duratec, which at the time consisted of a little over 9 years worth of data and 250 samples. I think dnewton (and anyone with statistical training) would agree, this is enough data to draw a "family" trend for the 2.5 Duratec. Here's what all that data boiled down to:

Average OCI: 7,711 miles
Avg Vis @ 100*C: 9.0
(All elements below are averages of the 250 samples)
Aluminum: 4 ppm
Chromium: 0
Iron: 11 ppm
Copper: 7 ppm
Lead: 0
Tin: 0
Molybdenum: 66 ppm
Nickel: 0
Manganese: 1 ppm
Silver: 0
Titanium: 2 ppm
Potassium: 2 ppm
Boron: 55 ppm
Silicon: 17 ppm
Sodium: 75 ppm
Calcium: 1918 ppm
Magnesium: 201 ppm
Phosphorous: 688 ppm
Zinc: 792 ppm
Barium: 2 ppm

So, over 250 samples, and certainly at least a couple failed engines in this set (there were multiple truly high samples, with iron readings as high as 132 ppm and copper as high as 108 ppm) this shows you how stable "wear" numbers for this engine really are. As dnewton points out, look at the wear trend.... even with the serious outliers that would normally be culled from most statistical calculations, this data set worked out to 1.4ppm Fe per 1k miles... or essentially nothing. Looking at the sodium and magnesium readings, there was most certainly a good representation of both Valvoline and Mobil 1, and I'm willing to bet a majority of these samples were likely quick-change so probably VWB or similar. My personal 2.5 Duratec went as far as 17k on an OCI, but with zero makeup oil it started to show that in my usage, the oil was starting to show strain.

Between Ford's OCI recommendation, Blackstone's data, and dnewton's experience, I would just about 100% guarantee you can use ANY oil that meets Ford's spec, conventional or synthetic, for 10k miles without ever doing a UOA, and your engine will still outlast the vehicle. If you're interested in the excel file to check out the data, PM me and I'll send it over.
 
I am currently using magnatec and am very happy with it. Especially since I bought 40+ qts at $1 per qt.

Ranked:
1. The one that's on sale + store rebate + manuf rebate, bundled with a filter
2. The one that's next closest in net price
3. Repeat #2 until you cover all brands

*Note that "higher" brands also fit into this process so you should also include these when deciding.
 
Not a Citgo fan for other reasons … but seems they bought Mystik which is a small but talented group of formulators.
Here is a marine lube line sold at parts stores for example

6C04CD2F-2038-4244-A435-AEE15CC169C3.jpeg
 
A 0w20?... I guess the one with the highest HTHS and/or 100c kv if the HTHS is unknown. Though using "highest" or "thickest" w/respect to a Xw20 does seem funny....‚ but it's a relative i suppose.
 
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Originally Posted by pbm
In what order would you rate these oils in 0w20 grade?

QSUD
Castrol Magnatec
Mobil Super Synthetic
NAPA synthetic
ST Synthetic
Shell Synthetic
Harvest King (by Citgo)
Lubrigold (by the other Warren)

Is it believed that any of these can do 10K in an NA, non DI, engine which isn't known to be hard on oil ….like the 2.5 Duratec in my Escape? Thanks for your opinions...


I wouldn't consider QSUD, Shell Syn or Magnatec lower tier. But i understand why you list them since they are not the top SOPUS or Castrol offerings.

The rest...(splitting hairs)

1. Napa
2. ST
3. Lubrigold
4. MSS
5..HK
 
Once you internalize the fact that as humans we do not make a decision that is not emotional to us. We may rationalize our decisions but all of them are based on emotion..you start to value things differently.
Marketing takes advantage of our nature by convincing us that certain products are the ones we want to use and would [censored] value to our lives.
Convincing us of this cost money spent studies on bottle color and labeling, phrases and reassurances, establishing marketing "reputations" that trigger emotional response strong enough that a person will say, "it's only a few more bucks but it is much better!" Even when the two products are quality specific commodities with no distinguishing performance differences.

If all of these meet the same specs as the "majors" a dispassionate view would tell you that you are getting the same oil quality for less and that is a better decision.
Once you understand how well the marketing has manipulated you emotionally maybe you would see value in not rewarding the manipulation,


Originally Posted by pbm
In what order would you rate these oils in 0w20 grade?

QSUD
Castrol Magnatec
Mobil Super Synthetic
NAPA synthetic
ST Synthetic
Shell Synthetic
Harvest King (by Citgo)
Lubrigold (by the other Warren)

Is it believed that any of these can do 10K in an NA, non DI, engine which isn't known to be hard on oil ….like the 2.5 Duratec in my Escape? Thanks for your opinions...
 
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Agreed.

Companies spend million$ coming up with the right words, label, bottle design etc.. when it comes to the majors, nothing is left to chance by the marketing team. Study and compare the data and most importantly just try out different lubes (trial and error) to see how a particular one performs in YOUR engine. Many of us have bought a lube because someone recommended it or it was on sale or, let's be honest here, the pkg itself enticed us into giving it a try... only to get it home and find out it makes your VT sound like a wood chipper. ...‚

Knowing a lube carries certs and approvals provides a great jumping off point, the proof is when you put it into service.
 
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Given what I've read here, my Chevy vehicles will run just fine on the new Costco Kirkland-branded, D1G2, full syn 5W-30 oil.
I sure hope so. I do like its price at $12.50 per 5 quarts (minimum purchase is 2 each 5-qt jugs)!
 
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I consider them lower teir because they are minimalistic, with a rather cookie cutter recipe, that aims to meet minimum standards and push product. Everything is cheapened as much as possible, so long as it still meets API, in order to be competitive with one another and make a good profit. They are your bare bones basic recipes.

Oh brother!!!!! Based on what?!?!?
VOA?
UOA?
Blending recipe?
Base stocks?

Or is it successful marketing?!?
cheers3.gif


BTW, please include the details of whatever recipe you are aware of. For educational purposes only, of course!!!
 
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