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Rating lower tiered synthetics? #5309869 01/01/20 10:04 AM
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pbm Offline OP
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In what order would you rate these oils in 0w20 grade?

QSUD
Castrol Magnatec
Mobil Super Synthetic
NAPA synthetic
ST Synthetic
Shell Synthetic
Harvest King (by Citgo)
Lubrigold (by the other Warren)

Is it believed that any of these can do 10K in an NA, non DI, engine which isn't known to be hard on oil ā€¦.like the 2.5 Duratec in my Escape? Thanks for your opinions...


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309873 01/01/20 10:12 AM
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Imp4 Offline
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Are these considered 'lower grade' because they don't meet the industry specs of other oils you have in mind?

Or are the considered 'lower grade' because they are marketed differently?

If it's a spec thing, what spec are you looking to meet they the oils listed above come up short on?

Thanks! cheers

Last edited by Imp4; 01/01/20 10:12 AM.

2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309876 01/01/20 10:12 AM
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I would not rate them ... they are all more than capable and although your brain might want to distinguish a difference, the engine will not.

In fact, for 10k miles, just about any conventional oil from those same sources would also do fine. The 2.5L Duratec is not picky about lube. I have some older UOAs posted on BITOG on my 2010 Fusion running dino lubes; you can seek them out as proof.


Not knowing what year Escape you have, I can reasonably still estimate that it would have been set for use of either the current or former 5w-20 Ford spec, but every Ford manual I've read also has a statement that if you cannot find Ford approved (licensed) lube, then just use the current API lube (SM or SN depending upon year of your manual). As all those lubes are API licensed, your engine will be just fine. Your brain cares far more than the engine will about brand differences.

Last edited by dnewton3; 01/01/20 10:16 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309899 01/01/20 10:29 AM
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They all exist within a very narrow scope with very little differences between them. I doubt you'd be able to see any real world performance difference between any of them outside of a reasonable margin of error. About the only factor you could rank them by is price.

I consider them lower teir because they are minimalistic, with a rather cookie cutter recipe, that aims to meet minimum standards and push product. Everything is cheapened as much as possible, so long as it still meets API, in order to be competitive with one another and make a good profit. They are your bare bones basic recipes.

Last edited by RDY4WAR; 01/01/20 10:34 AM.

"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309912 01/01/20 10:42 AM
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4WD Offline
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Regardless of vehicle make ā€¦ Iā€™d say Dexos is a good minimum standard and several of those will be Dexos approved at a reasonable price point. 0w20 generally requires a good base stock to start with.

Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309915 01/01/20 10:43 AM
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Sayjac Offline
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Well I can't get the bottom/last three, not sure what Shell Syn is so that eliminates them for me. Mobil SS also very uncommon these parts and QSUD 0w20 has become scarce to nil at WM. So that leaves Magnatec, ST Syn and Napa Synthetic. Best current price on rollback ST Syn @14.88, so that best value now. That said, I got some Magnatec on Amazon end of Nov, $12.90/jug with S&S so I grabbed couple jugs. Napa Syn ok too when on sale, but haven't seen it as low priced as the two others.

So while I currently lean Magnatec showing $15.15/jug with S&S for me, lowest price basically wins.

There was HK Citgo anecdote posted recently showing some cello like material in a jug. Thinking that an outlier though.

Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309925 01/01/20 10:57 AM
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Im currently using 5w30 on my 2.5 duratec.

Why do you choose 0w20

Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309927 01/01/20 10:58 AM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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The first two listed in your opening post, would be first choices on my shopping list. You need to be more specific on which one that Shell Synthetic is. I've never seen Formula Shell Synthetic here in S.E. Michigan.


Keep Your Pistons Valves & Injectors Clean

19 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI
20 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Plat. 5W30 / AC Delco PF1127 Ecores
04 Chev Colorado Napa Syn 0w20 & K&N



Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309936 01/01/20 11:05 AM
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csandste Online Content
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Almost all Citgo Harvest King is long gone (you can tell by the bottle)-- it's all Warren Oil now. Probably little difference but I like Warren better.


2017 Kia Soul+ Valvoline Daily Protection 5w30+ a bit of Harvest King syn 5w30-- 75,000 miles
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309937 01/01/20 11:09 AM
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JLTD Offline
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Depends on your planned interval. For 10k miles or less, as dnewton3 said any should be good to go (as always a UOA is recommended to be sure with your driving habits)

Beyond a 10k mile interval, with UOA, I'd rank QSUD first as a good longer drain oil; with no data on the other oils at any distance I won't speculate.


Lates.
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309942 01/01/20 11:15 AM
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So, almost a year and a half ago I was overly concerned about the 2.5 Duratec in my 2011 Fusion, through trying to stretch the OCI as far as possible. I needn't not have worried, as the MZR is an amazingly durable engine. So I had emailed Ryan Stark at Blackstone, and he sent me an Excel file with all of their samples taken with the 2.5 Duratec, which at the time consisted of a little over 9 years worth of data and 250 samples. I think dnewton (and anyone with statistical training) would agree, this is enough data to draw a "family" trend for the 2.5 Duratec. Here's what all that data boiled down to:

Average OCI: 7,711 miles
Avg Vis @ 100*C: 9.0
(All elements below are averages of the 250 samples)
Aluminum: 4 ppm
Chromium: 0
Iron: 11 ppm
Copper: 7 ppm
Lead: 0
Tin: 0
Molybdenum: 66 ppm
Nickel: 0
Manganese: 1 ppm
Silver: 0
Titanium: 2 ppm
Potassium: 2 ppm
Boron: 55 ppm
Silicon: 17 ppm
Sodium: 75 ppm
Calcium: 1918 ppm
Magnesium: 201 ppm
Phosphorous: 688 ppm
Zinc: 792 ppm
Barium: 2 ppm

So, over 250 samples, and certainly at least a couple failed engines in this set (there were multiple truly high samples, with iron readings as high as 132 ppm and copper as high as 108 ppm) this shows you how stable "wear" numbers for this engine really are. As dnewton points out, look at the wear trend.... even with the serious outliers that would normally be culled from most statistical calculations, this data set worked out to 1.4ppm Fe per 1k miles... or essentially nothing. Looking at the sodium and magnesium readings, there was most certainly a good representation of both Valvoline and Mobil 1, and I'm willing to bet a majority of these samples were likely quick-change so probably VWB or similar. My personal 2.5 Duratec went as far as 17k on an OCI, but with zero makeup oil it started to show that in my usage, the oil was starting to show strain.

Between Ford's OCI recommendation, Blackstone's data, and dnewton's experience, I would just about 100% guarantee you can use ANY oil that meets Ford's spec, conventional or synthetic, for 10k miles without ever doing a UOA, and your engine will still outlast the vehicle. If you're interested in the excel file to check out the data, PM me and I'll send it over.


De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309943 01/01/20 11:15 AM
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I am currently using magnatec and am very happy with it. Especially since I bought 40+ qts at $1 per qt.

Ranked:
1. The one that's on sale + store rebate + manuf rebate, bundled with a filter
2. The one that's next closest in net price
3. Repeat #2 until you cover all brands

*Note that "higher" brands also fit into this process so you should also include these when deciding.


2007 Cadillac CTS 3.6L >130k miles; mix of PUP/Magnatec 5W-30 + ACDelco PF2129G

2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L >107k miles; STP (Amalie) 0W20 + ACDelco PF2057
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: csandste] #5309946 01/01/20 11:18 AM
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4WD Offline
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Not a Citgo fan for other reasons ā€¦ but seems they bought Mystik which is a small but talented group of formulators.
Here is a marine lube line sold at parts stores for example

6C04CD2F-2038-4244-A435-AEE15CC169C3.jpeg
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5309961 01/01/20 11:34 AM
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A 0w20?... I guess the one with the highest HTHS and/or 100c kv if the HTHS is unknown. Though using "highest" or "thickest" w/respect to a Xw20 does seem funny.šŸ˜‚ but it's a relative i suppose.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 01/01/20 11:34 AM.
Re: Rating lower tiered synthetics? [Re: pbm] #5310004 01/01/20 12:19 PM
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wemay Online Happy
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Originally Posted by pbm
In what order would you rate these oils in 0w20 grade?

QSUD
Castrol Magnatec
Mobil Super Synthetic
NAPA synthetic
ST Synthetic
Shell Synthetic
Harvest King (by Citgo)
Lubrigold (by the other Warren)

Is it believed that any of these can do 10K in an NA, non DI, engine which isn't known to be hard on oil ā€¦.like the 2.5 Duratec in my Escape? Thanks for your opinions...


I wouldn't consider QSUD, Shell Syn or Magnatec lower tier. But i understand why you list them since they are not the top SOPUS or Castrol offerings.

The rest...(splitting hairs)

1. Napa
2. ST
3. Lubrigold
4. MSS
5..HK


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg 2.0TSI: VW 508.00 0W-20+VW o.filter+Fram CA9711 a.filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell RGT 5W-30+H/K o.filter+NAPA 9670 a.filter
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