Filter for 5000 miles

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Orange can of delight; $3.88 at most WM stores.
They are now rated for 10k miles, so 5k is no challenge whatsoever.


Fram can rate it for 20K if they want, but I wouldn't use an OCD for longer than 3K. Heck, I wouldn't even use a Tough Guard for longer than 3K. I don't care if the the new ADBV is silicone. The only Fram worth a dram is the Ultra.
 
Originally Posted by dawgn86
No offense intended to anyone, but if you buy a $40000+ vehicle, why worry about a few dollars over an oil filter?


I always wonder that too. Just cut out one burger and fries out one a year and get a decent oil filter instead.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

I always wonder that too. Just cut out one burger and fries out one a year and get a decent oil filter instead.
grin2.gif


Define decent?

For me, it means it meets or excedes the OEM filter specs (filtration, size, bypass etc), does not fail during normal use, and is readily available and affordable.

Sometimes OEM is the "decent" filter, sometimes a Fram, Supertech or a made in China filter is.
 
The definition of "decent" is in the eye of the beholder, as they say, and what makes someone feel satisfied/comfortable. I like high efficiency, full synthetic media and a silicone ADBV. A filter meeting those three things will typically be around $8~12 unless maybe on some kind of "super sale". I'd never buy filters on Rock Auto for instance (maybe eBay if seller was legitimate) just because they were low in cost, not knowing exactly what I'm going to get. I like to know that I can trust the filter to do what I want it to do.
 
Originally Posted by dawgn86
No offense intended to anyone, but if you buy a $40000+ vehicle, why worry about a few dollars over an oil filter?


I don't worry about how much an oil or filter costs, but that's just me.

I spend my money, my time on what I want.

...Ž
 
I buy my oil filters and oils in bulk so when it comes time to change oil I don't have to make a trip to the store every time. I try to get a good quality filter for a good price. Rockauto had champion/COS1075 filters for $1.10 so I got a case and is a very good filter. I bought lots of RGT 0&5w20 2 bucks a quart. That oil and filter also fit my jeep. I don't obsess over it but I definitely got a bang for my buck.
 
I'd say my $4 PF63E filters are decent … and I'm perfectly fine with nitrile for short runs. They are holding like a Champ (sorry) every-time I pull one.
Just put on a Baldwin with a black ADBV … we'll see in a few months.
Started to use the filter to add a quart of "spike" oil halfway in the OCI. So easy to pull on the GM's
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dawgn86
No offense intended to anyone, but if you buy a $40000+ vehicle, why worry about a few dollars over an oil filter?

The implication is what? That spending more money always means it's "better"?
So if the filter was $20, it would be better than a $12 filter?
A $40 filter would be better than $20?

Prove to me that you can discern a true difference in wear protection between the EG at 95%, a TG at 99% and the Ultra 99+% (or similar examples) for a 10k mile OFCI, and then I'll take note. Conversely, show me the proof that using an inexpensive filter such as the EG has a documented history of inflicting failures over, say, something more costly.

I'd take an EG right now any day over some of the Purolator (and sub-branded) filters. For example, I used to be impressed with the MC filters, but not any longer. They cost more than the EG, so would you say that paying more for the MC makes it "better" than the EG???

There are times when adding $$$ into a product results in a "better" product. There are times when adding $$$ to the retail price only makes the retailer and maker richer. For me, it's about maintaining the expected minimum threshold of performance for a good ROI. I need a filter that is "good enough" for the least cost.

I've seen zero proof that using a syn for a 5k mile "normal" OCI makes for less wear or a safer engine.
I've seen zero proof that using a super-premium filter for a 5k mile "normal" FCI makes for less wear or a safer engine.
 
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by dawgn86
No offense intended to anyone, but if you buy a $40000+ vehicle, why worry about a few dollars over an oil filter?

The implication is what? That spending more money always means it's "better"?
So if the filter was $20, it would be better than a $12 filter?
A $40 filter would be better than $20?
...
There are times when adding $$$ into a product results in a "better" product. There are times when adding $$$ to the retail price only makes the retailer and maker richer. For me, it's about maintaining the expected minimum threshold of performance for a good ROI. I need a filter that is "good enough" for the least cost.


This x2

The OE air filter for my $55k sports sedan is $30+ depending on where you buy. Why should I spend $30+ on an air filter when the $17 filter is rated at 99.3% efficiency? It's not that I can't buy the more expensive one, it's that there's no reason to given that a cheaper alternative is every bit as good as the OE part.

With that being said, it does seem kind of silly and I genuinely understand your sentiment. But I worry about a few dollars because those few dollars combined with another few dollars can add up quickly.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Prove to me that you can discern a true difference in wear protection between the EG at 95%, a TG at 99% and the Ultra 99+% (or similar examples) for a 10k mile OFCI, and then I'll take note.


Those are all what I'd consider on the end of the "high efficiency" scale, and of course there will not be enough difference between those efficiencies to see a "wear difference" in UOAs. However, you may see a slight PC difference between them. Now when we compare 50% @ 20u (which is close to the same as 99% @ 40u+), then there could certainly be a measurable difference in wear in the long run. There is a decent PC difference (ie, oil cleanliness level) seen between those two extremes on the efficiency scale.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Prove to me that you can discern a true difference in wear protection between the EG at 95%, a TG at 99% and the Ultra 99+% (or similar examples) for a 10k mile OFCI, and then I'll take note.


Those are all what I'd consider on the end of the "high efficiency" scale, and of course there will not be enough difference between those efficiencies to see a "wear difference" in UOAs. However, you may see a slight PC difference between them.


Now Zee, if you're going to start off the new year injecting common sense and logic into threads, I'm not sure where to go from here ....
lol.gif


But seriously, I do think the difference between those three models (EG, TG, U) is pretty much indistinguishable in 5k miles, or honestly even 10k miles. They all will have the capacity and efficiency needed and we'd not ever be able to tell them apart in terms of wear control. I was using the TGs fairly regularly, but now that they've up'd the EG to 10k miles it may well be my new go-to filter. I'd take it over a MC right now; that's for sure.

So, for a 5k mile OFCI, why spend $12 (Ultra) when $4 (EG) gets you the same result???????????
21.gif

You're surly not getting 3x less wear, nor 3x longer use (because of the self-imposed OFCI limit) by using the Ultra over the EG.
This is why I cannot understand how others cannot understand the topic.
Too many people want to set a $ limit, and then try to pick a filter.
Rather, one should define the criteria desired for the OFCI, and then select the least cost filter that will maintain that safe margin of operation.
If Fram says the EG is good for 10k miles, then I suspect it's safety margin is well past that!
 
An example that member dnewton might be missing is a hypothetical instance where a TDGI owner with 85K decides it's time for some piston cleaning, other than buying top-tier gas. He may want to soak, or he may want to use an entire bottle of CRC Intake Cleaner thru the intake. That's when the benefits of having a 99/20 filter like Ultra onboard occurs.

But otherwise, it harkens back to a member here that saw his Pep Boys delivery car rack-up 350K using nothing but Pep Boys oil and Pep Boys basic filters, an el-cheapo filter probably in the minimum 95/30 protection zone.

So in retrospect, good filtering is needed with dirty engines. But otherwise basic filtering is all the average, semi-clean engine car needs. I use name-brand oils that advertise cleaning power on the jug and on their website to keep my engines clean. Basic filtering works great for me.This keeps my engine clean for a lifetime (18 years)..
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Prove to me that you can discern a true difference in wear protection between the EG at 95%, a TG at 99% and the Ultra 99+% (or similar examples) for a 10k mile OFCI, and then I'll take note.

Those are all what I'd consider on the end of the "high efficiency" scale, and of course there will not be enough difference between those efficiencies to see a "wear difference" in UOAs. However, you may see a slight PC difference between them.

Now Zee, if you're going to start off the new year injecting common sense and logic into threads, I'm not sure where to go from here ....
lol.gif


But seriously, I do think the difference between those three models (EG, TG, U) is pretty much indistinguishable in 5k miles, or honestly even 10k miles. They all will have the capacity and efficiency needed and we'd not ever be able to tell them apart in terms of wear control.
...
...


I agree ... you most likely won't see a big difference between those 3 levels of efficiency, especially if you run the filters as intended. What I mean is don't run an EG for 20K miles and don't run an XG for 5K miles - unless you do 2 or 3 filter runs and only change the oil.

As I've said before, I think of it as matching the filter to the planned OCI. So for low mileage OCIs (3K - 5K miles) running a lower efficiency filter isn't going to matter much because the sump is being dumped with less miles on the oil. But if you do long OCIs (10K - 15K miles), then running a more efficient filter makes more sense, especially since they are usually rated for longer use (ie, full synthetic or synthetic blend media) and have more holding capacity and therefore less delta-p build up and less chance of bypassing and sloughing off captured debris from the media.

When doing longer OCIs, you need a higher efficiency filter to help keep the oil cleaner as miles rack up on the oil. Basically, wear is proportional to the oil cleanliness level times the miles the oil was ran (ie, how many times the dirty sump is pumped through the engine). A short OCI with dirtier oil may give the same wear level as a bit cleaner oil ran for a longer OCI. It would make for a good study.
 
On the other hand … I see prices get exaggerated to fit a narrative
Filters can be purchased online in 6's and 12's for significant savings …
My ACD's = $4 … my XG's = $6 …Hengst = $5
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
On the other hand … I see prices get exaggerated to fit a narrative
Filters can be purchased online in 6's and 12's for significant savings …
My ACD's = $4 … my XG's = $6 …Hengst = $5


Of course "deals" can be found when buying in bulk on places like eBay. Doesn't have much to do with matching the filter to the OCI.
 
I will give $100 to the first person whom can prove that there is a true, discernible real-world difference between the EG, TG and XG in normal use for 5k miles in a normal, well-running car.

I am not talking about lab studies (HALTs) which manipulate the conditions to bias an outcome. I'm talking about real world data, analyzed with accurate statistical processing, where we would be able to discern the filter selection via the wear rates, outside of "normal" variation and gauge R&R.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

FordFETruck
Microgard MGL57060 Cut open 9,000 miles use
Replies
18
Views
2K
dogememe
MuzzleFlash40
STP XL Oil Filter opinions
2 3
Replies
43
Views
3K
Bellavita
dezlpwr
Particle Count Comparisons! Fram Ultra vs K&P Reusable Stainless Mesh oil filter
2 3 4
Replies
67
Views
5K
dezlpwr
GMBoy
5000 mile oil filters
Replies
18
Views
3K
ZeeOSix
A
is fram's extra guard 95% efficiency worrysome? or is it fine for low OCI?
2 3 4
Replies
71
Views
5K
ZeeOSix
Back
Top