The oil didnt matter....cold start rattle back again on Ecoboost engine!
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Let me be clear. In every thread on the internet about cold start rattle there is always someone asking about the anti drainback valve on the filter. I do NOT use Fram filters. Just about every oil filter out there now has a anti drainback filter. Its not the filter.
This is a known issue within the Ford Lincoln F150 Expedition Navigator community. In the 2nd generation Ecoboost engines a cold start rattle develops at some point and absolutely no one can figure out as to why. Ford got flustered and decided to address it by replacing just about every part in the engine it could possibly be which solved the problem for about 20000 miles or so before it came back again. Now in an updated service bulletin its saying its the VCT units. Also keep in mind this was an issue in the Triton V8s and the 1st generation Ecoboost only solved after several model years and thousands of disgruntled customers later.
As for the thicker oil Im going to stick with it because the Blackstone lab results I got back were exceptional. Even though it wasnt a "cure" the engine seemed to run smoother and more refined...and the lab results were commendable without a noticeable hit in mpg. When I ran the suggested oil the engines seemed to have some drama to it with a chorus of different chatter and noises which were not horrible, but it just didnt seem as refined as it could be for the Lincoln luxury brand...
This is a known issue within the Ford Lincoln F150 Expedition Navigator community. In the 2nd generation Ecoboost engines a cold start rattle develops at some point and absolutely no one can figure out as to why. Ford got flustered and decided to address it by replacing just about every part in the engine it could possibly be which solved the problem for about 20000 miles or so before it came back again. Now in an updated service bulletin its saying its the VCT units. Also keep in mind this was an issue in the Triton V8s and the 1st generation Ecoboost only solved after several model years and thousands of disgruntled customers later.
As for the thicker oil Im going to stick with it because the Blackstone lab results I got back were exceptional. Even though it wasnt a "cure" the engine seemed to run smoother and more refined...and the lab results were commendable without a noticeable hit in mpg. When I ran the suggested oil the engines seemed to have some drama to it with a chorus of different chatter and noises which were not horrible, but it just didnt seem as refined as it could be for the Lincoln luxury brand...
Sound like my Honda ka engine
How thick are you running? I have a cold start rattle on my Nissan that's better with thick oil, but then the engine is overreving with the cvt so I just deal with the rattle for a second or two. My brother has a Kia that sound like a diesel and has since new yet the engine is approaching 300k and has been in the dealer no less than a dozen times from his complaint of how it sounds.
So with all these engines with the cold start rattle. How many of them are trashed and no longer on the road and how many are now over 200k with no issues?
Seems most don't like noise and if it bothers you buy something else.
My 2002 Silverado had the cold start knock, (that is what it was called back then) since new and at 194k miles it is just as loud and not issues at all. To me the engine design isn't the best but it doesn't effect the integrity of the engine one bit. Not to mention there are more than likely a bunch of these LS engine CSK issues with over 300k on them.
The only solution to me is find a vehicle that is nice and quiet and purchase that. No other way around it if the sound bothers you.
Seems most don't like noise and if it bothers you buy something else.
My 2002 Silverado had the cold start knock, (that is what it was called back then) since new and at 194k miles it is just as loud and not issues at all. To me the engine design isn't the best but it doesn't effect the integrity of the engine one bit. Not to mention there are more than likely a bunch of these LS engine CSK issues with over 300k on them.
The only solution to me is find a vehicle that is nice and quiet and purchase that. No other way around it if the sound bothers you.
Actually I don't "hear" a problem here. A lighter "weight" oil could get to the the VCT sooner at start ups. Blackstone would probably give you glowing reports on a 5w-30 too.
The rattle is there because of timing chain stretch. Oil viscosity isn't going to help. Ford will probably need to replace the chains, tensioners and phasers on that engine.
Forged pistons to handle the boost + a wide "cam profile" on the piston skirt = a loose fit until the crown of the piston heats up and expands.
Its well known that if the problem is ignored eventually the chain breaks and kills the engine. The dealership already replaced everything related to it once...spent over a month in the shop and had to bring it back a second time after delivery. I think they even replaced the camshaft too. In this next episode they will replace the VCT units.
Originally Posted by Rat407
My 2002 Silverado had the cold start knock, (that is what it was called back then) since new and at 194k miles it is just as loud and not issues at all. To me the engine design isn't the best but it doesn't effect the integrity of the engine one bit.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
The rattle is there because of timing chain stretch. Oil viscosity isn't going to help. Ford will probably need to replace the chains, tensioners and phasers on that engine.
And there is the difference. The GM LS engines of the early 2000's had a short skirt piston that was prone to noise, slap, etc but didn't seem to cause any long term issues. Since FOMOCO builds almost all their engines with miles of chains and guides for their OHC design the Ford design is a problem that will most likely cause issues if left alone. Noise yes, but root causes are apples and oranges.
My 2002 Silverado had the cold start knock, (that is what it was called back then) since new and at 194k miles it is just as loud and not issues at all. To me the engine design isn't the best but it doesn't effect the integrity of the engine one bit.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
The rattle is there because of timing chain stretch. Oil viscosity isn't going to help. Ford will probably need to replace the chains, tensioners and phasers on that engine.
And there is the difference. The GM LS engines of the early 2000's had a short skirt piston that was prone to noise, slap, etc but didn't seem to cause any long term issues. Since FOMOCO builds almost all their engines with miles of chains and guides for their OHC design the Ford design is a problem that will most likely cause issues if left alone. Noise yes, but root causes are apples and oranges.
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Sounds pretty loud right at startup and immediately quiets down. I have to agree that thicker oil takes longer to get to the upper part of the engine. Yes, you would get good UOAs from Blackstone with a 5W30. This engine may last a long time or not, who knows. Haven't you already replaced the timing set? I would try a 5W30 full synthetic that contains titanium. The oils containing titanium are Castrol Edge, Valvoline Advance Full Synthetic and Kendall GT-1 Max.
The piston slap in the GM engines did cause long term problems. Primarily high oil consumption problems from ‘99 to ‘03. Not to mention, GM has had a ton of problems with their smaller engines that have variable cam and valve timing. The only reason GM waited so long to go to that setup in the trucks was they don't sell as many as Ford and they didn't take as big of a hit to their CAFE numbers.
Sorry you're going through this Navi. It sucks to pay a ton of money for something like this and deal with problems.
Sorry you're going through this Navi. It sucks to pay a ton of money for something like this and deal with problems.
4WD
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Ok but my family and my friends owned those piston slappers up to 400k … (wheel bearing only)
My last one was beaten hard for 8 years and never saw the dealership … no oil consumption …
Our current 5.3's consume no oil and the 1.4L turbo is at 120k as is the Fusion … neither use oil.
BTW … the 5.3's are very quiet engines … piston jets may of helped …
The Tundra has a consumption issue … gasoline …
My last one was beaten hard for 8 years and never saw the dealership … no oil consumption …
Our current 5.3's consume no oil and the 1.4L turbo is at 120k as is the Fusion … neither use oil.
BTW … the 5.3's are very quiet engines … piston jets may of helped …
The Tundra has a consumption issue … gasoline …
Originally Posted by Navi
I authored a few threads on this. I did get glowing Blackstone reports commending the thicker oils...but that didnt matter. Its back again!
I don't see a problem here with that start - a couple seconds for the oil to get to the cam phasers. I guess they aren't locking in advance when shut down, but I don't know the design of these particular phasers. Unless they continue knocking ( like my toyotas did) I would worry. Comp cams makes a kit for this I think when you buy one of their performance cams.
This is the price of non-proven "new technology".
You should hear the TC slap on my wife's subaru for about a MINUTE after cold start. Engine sound like its eating itself. Terrible.
But stupid Subaru with the filter on top of the engine, inverted gets a dry start every morning an afternoon.
Everytime Ive changed the oil on this car and the forester previously the filter was empty.
I would not worry yet, but make sure this gets written as a concern on a R.O. even if their current diagnoses is NPF.
I authored a few threads on this. I did get glowing Blackstone reports commending the thicker oils...but that didnt matter. Its back again!
I don't see a problem here with that start - a couple seconds for the oil to get to the cam phasers. I guess they aren't locking in advance when shut down, but I don't know the design of these particular phasers. Unless they continue knocking ( like my toyotas did) I would worry. Comp cams makes a kit for this I think when you buy one of their performance cams.
This is the price of non-proven "new technology".
You should hear the TC slap on my wife's subaru for about a MINUTE after cold start. Engine sound like its eating itself. Terrible.
But stupid Subaru with the filter on top of the engine, inverted gets a dry start every morning an afternoon.
Everytime Ive changed the oil on this car and the forester previously the filter was empty.
I would not worry yet, but make sure this gets written as a concern on a R.O. even if their current diagnoses is NPF.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Ok but my family and my friends owned those piston slappers up to 400k … (wheel bearing only)
My last one was beaten hard for 8 years and never saw the dealership … no oil consumption …
Our current 5.3's consume no oil and the 1.4L turbo is at 120k as is the Fusion … neither use oil.
BTW … the 5.3's are very quiet engines … piston jets may of helped …
The Tundra has a consumption issue … gasoline …
I dont buy a truck to worry about fuel mileage. Tundra is the best built half ton on the market. My ‘03 Sierra sounded like a diesel and used a quart every 800 miles by 60,000 miles and got worse. My Tundra doesn't burn a drop between oil changes.
Ok but my family and my friends owned those piston slappers up to 400k … (wheel bearing only)
My last one was beaten hard for 8 years and never saw the dealership … no oil consumption …
Our current 5.3's consume no oil and the 1.4L turbo is at 120k as is the Fusion … neither use oil.
BTW … the 5.3's are very quiet engines … piston jets may of helped …
The Tundra has a consumption issue … gasoline …
I dont buy a truck to worry about fuel mileage. Tundra is the best built half ton on the market. My ‘03 Sierra sounded like a diesel and used a quart every 800 miles by 60,000 miles and got worse. My Tundra doesn't burn a drop between oil changes.
Originally Posted by Navi
I have a 150k warranty. This will be a dealership issue now...
Tell them to replace everything including the phasers, chains and tensioners this time. Either the tensioners or phasers are leaking down. Or possibly both.
I have a 150k warranty. This will be a dealership issue now...
Tell them to replace everything including the phasers, chains and tensioners this time. Either the tensioners or phasers are leaking down. Or possibly both.
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