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The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images #5308067 12/30/19 01:06 PM
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Dave_Mark Offline OP
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All the points discussed (11, 12, and 14) are in reference to the below chart.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Raw photometric data is available here.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com][Linked Image from i.imgur.com][Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Dave_Mark; 12/30/19 01:10 PM.
Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308089 12/30/19 01:36 PM
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The evidence is abundantly clear that halogen lights create the best visibility and LED's continue to be expensive vanity up-charges that are good for nothing but blinding oncoming drivers.


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Tman220] #5308111 12/30/19 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tman220
The evidence is abundantly clear that halogen lights create the best visibility and LED's continue to be expensive vanity up-charges that are good for nothing but blinding oncoming drivers.
It is? I am assuming that you are speaking of LED/HID retrofits into halogen housings and not true LED or HID headlights. I have owned 3 vehicles with either factory HID or LED and all of them far outperform halogen lights.


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308124 12/30/19 02:17 PM
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FastLane Offline
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LED lights are horrible.


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308132 12/30/19 02:25 PM
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Aftermarket leds suck. I’ve yet to see a worthwhile set.


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: FastLane] #5308175 12/30/19 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FastLane
LED lights are horrible.



There are no factory LEDs or HIDs listed in the comparison table - if they were, you'd see that they blow the old school factory halogens completely out of the water. Factory to factory, stock to stock, halogen is far worse than HID or LED.

Aftermarket is another matter entirely.

Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Spktyr] #5308210 12/30/19 03:33 PM
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Dave_Mark Offline OP
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Jeep Wrangler (LED) is in the tables above.

Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308224 12/30/19 03:50 PM
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UG_Passat Offline
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A sample of 1 aftermarket H1-HID projector isn't a statistical representative sample to reach a conclusion. Maybe try evaluating additional aftermarket D2S projectors, as well as the popular factory projectors used for retrofitting, such as the S2000, TL & FX


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308249 12/30/19 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mark
Jeep Wrangler (LED) is in the tables above.
Yes; but are they factory LED or retrofit LED into halogen housings? I have a 2019 Wrangler with factory LED headlights and I can see far beyond my next door neighbors halogen headlights. I have a JL Jeep and he has a JK, in fact, I have not had a bad experience with factory HID (2014 Ford Explorer) or factory LED (2018 Mercedes C300, 2018 AMG GLC43, and 2019 Jeep Rubicon).


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: UG_Passat] #5308262 12/30/19 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
A sample of 1 aftermarket H1-HID projector isn't a statistical representative sample to reach a conclusion. Maybe try evaluating additional aftermarket D2S projectors, as well as the popular factory projectors used for retrofitting, such as the S2000, TL & FX


It's a mid-tier option which, according to TRS, is better than the S2K. And at $120 for the projector alone, it's nearly 5x the price of the $25 H1 Acme option. It's a good representation of what the mid-tier section of the industry looks like, and it doesn't look pretty. From this we can safely deduce that the $25 Acme's are the same or worse.

Also, the bigger point isn't to figure out which aftermarket projector is best. It's to show that what our eyes tell us is often BS. And waving a lux meter around on a wall isn't much better.

Before today, no one--not even the people who wave lux meters around on walls--could have told you that the $120 HID projector was worse than sealed beams from the 1970s. I spent hours reading reviews of the Mini H1 7.0 yesterday, and not one person was able to give even a ballpark estimation of how good/bad the projector is vis-a-vis other vehicles' headlamps. This projector has been out for years and no one can tell me that it's worse than a 2006 F-150? Just shows that we need actual testing--not Caesar waving an outdated and incorrect-for-the-task lux meter on a wall in a garage wink. The Extech LT300 was not designed to accurately measure metal-halide (HID) or LED light sources.

It's a failure of the community at large to not be able to evaluate the projector and realize that it's worse than their Cibie 7" round from the 1970s. Just goes to show how inadequate our eyes are. You know for a fact that before today, if someone came in here and said "I see that the Mini H1 7.0 HID is objectively worse than a sealed beam from the 1970s" he'd be laughed out the forum (unless he had data).

Last edited by Dave_Mark; 12/30/19 04:46 PM.
Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308269 12/30/19 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mark
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
A sample of 1 aftermarket H1-HID projector isn't a statistical representative sample to reach a conclusion. Maybe try evaluating additional aftermarket D2S projectors, as well as the popular factory projectors used for retrofitting, such as the S2000, TL & FX


It's a mid-tier option which, according to TRS, is better than the S2K. And at $120 for the projector alone, it's nearly 5x the price of the $25 H1 Acme option. It's a good representation of what the mid-tier section of the industry looks like, and it doesn't look pretty. From this we can safely deduce that the $25 Acme's are the same or worse.

Also, the bigger point isn't to figure out which aftermarket projector is best. It's to show that what our eyes tell us is often BS. And waving a lux meter around on a wall isn't much better.

Before today, no one--not even the people who wave lux meters around on walls--could have told you that the $120 HID projector was worse than sealed beams from the 1970s.


The Acme option is basically an older version of the MH1 projector they still sell. The Mh1 is designed for more size restricted housings for retrofit and easier install, so it won't have the benefits of a larger bowl or lens. It's not really a mid-tier option. Their mid-tier option is the Mini D2S projector, which uses an actual D2S bulb, instead of a more compromised rebased xenon bulb.

Plus, I don't see the full report for the MH1 in the google drive, just a snapshot of data.


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Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: UG_Passat] #5308272 12/30/19 04:47 PM
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Dave_Mark Offline OP
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Plus, I don't see the full report for the MH1 in the google drive, just a snapshot of data.


Well, yeah, if I paid for testing and found out my HID projector got stomped by 1970s incandescent sealed beams, I wouldn't release the entire testing report either. I'm not the one who edited the data. TRS, who paid for the report, posted that snippet, and that snippet is all I get.

I'm pretty sure this is the last time we'll ever see a snippet of data from them again. Nope--they won't be making that mistake of releasing data to me again wink.

On a serious note, the snippet has all the relevant data we need. The other data (that wasn't released) has to do with the color of the light in terms of CIE color coordinates, the cutoff gradient, etc. Not really relevant and likely too esoteric to be discussed here.

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
it won't have the benefits of a larger bowl or lens.


What benefits does the MH1 7.0 have? Doesn't seem to have any, given the above data, but I keep an open mind.

It's interesting to note that the MH1 7.0's peak intensity (21,389.24 cd @ 2.1D, 0.9R) is less than the peak intensity of the beauty of a headlamp shown below (23,421 cd @ 2D, 1R).

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Dave_Mark; 12/30/19 05:03 PM.
Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: UG_Passat] #5308346 12/30/19 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
A sample of 1 aftermarket H1-HID projector isn't a statistical representative sample to reach a conclusion. Maybe try evaluating additional aftermarket D2S projectors, as well as the popular factory projectors used for retrofitting, such as the S2000, TL & FX


Have you ever seen objective, photometric measurements for a sizable number of HID or LED retrofits into halogen housings, anywhere?

There was a recent SAE paper looking at LED retrofits (around 6 samples ,IIRC).

Mostly what I see on forums and from sellers of kits is photographs of headlights shining on a wall. A very effective marketing tool, but reveals very little about real world performance. The "headlight-shining-on-a-wall" test is about as informative as the "drop-of-oil-on-white-paper" test.

Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308440 12/30/19 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mark
Jeep Wrangler (LED) is in the tables above.


IIRC, that one is actually an aftermarket unit that Fiat slapped in there. Sure, technically OEM, but not really. Same thing goes for the Harley Davidson LED units.

Let's see an actual set of OEM units that were purpose designed for their cars.

Re: The Truth About Projector Retrofits in 6 Images [Re: Dave_Mark] #5308474 12/30/19 07:50 PM
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I know a lot of people need to “shim” their Mini H1’s to adjust the hotspot. Would love to see some D2S retrofit projectors.

Originally Posted by Spktyr


Let's see an actual set of OEM units that were purpose designed for their cars.


Also this. Would love to see how the Acura/Honda as well as the Toyota LED’s perform.

Last edited by Skippy722; 12/30/19 07:52 PM.

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