I know this has been beaten to death by the thick vs. thin crowd. I'm trying to simplify my stock room and just go with a good quality full synthetic 5w30 in bulk for all the gas vehicles. Not worried about warranty or fuel mileage. Just want to know if any harm will come from going up to 30w on vehicles spec. 20w?
5w20 or 5w30 in 5.4L Ford 3v?
- Thread starter mpgo4th
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No harm, will probably turn out better UOA's anyway. You could get away with 10w30 or 0w40 as well.
Your vehicle, run what you want. Don't complain if something bad happens.
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall (especially if you have had the oil pump replaced).
On my brother in laws 3v 5.3 I had been running nothing but 5w-20 because the engine ran quieter on it than a 5w-30 (had the horrible diesel rattle these motors have sometimes).
Last change I said screw it and ran some 10w-30 Magnatec and it is very quiet, but his motor is going to die soon with how much metal comes out every oil change.
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall (especially if you have had the oil pump replaced).
On my brother in laws 3v 5.3 I had been running nothing but 5w-20 because the engine ran quieter on it than a 5w-30 (had the horrible diesel rattle these motors have sometimes).
Last change I said screw it and ran some 10w-30 Magnatec and it is very quiet, but his motor is going to die soon with how much metal comes out every oil change.
I think 5w30 is a great choice and I think alot of people find better results with it.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/12/full-86442-39780-20191229_113041.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by blupupher
Your vehicle, run what you want. Don't complain if something bad happens.
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall (especially if you have had the oil pump replaced).
On my brother in laws 3v 5.3 I had been running nothing but 5w-20 because the engine ran quieter on it than a 5w-30 (had the horrible diesel rattle these motors have sometimes).
Last change I said screw it and ran some 10w-30 Magnatec and it is very quiet, but his motor is going to die soon with how much metal comes out every oil change.
I've seen your filter cut open videos on that truck. Are you only using the tough guard kn that vehicle or is that your filter of choice on others as well?
Your vehicle, run what you want. Don't complain if something bad happens.
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall (especially if you have had the oil pump replaced).
On my brother in laws 3v 5.3 I had been running nothing but 5w-20 because the engine ran quieter on it than a 5w-30 (had the horrible diesel rattle these motors have sometimes).
Last change I said screw it and ran some 10w-30 Magnatec and it is very quiet, but his motor is going to die soon with how much metal comes out every oil change.
I've seen your filter cut open videos on that truck. Are you only using the tough guard kn that vehicle or is that your filter of choice on others as well?
5w30 is fine, plus if it works to have your fleet on 5w30; win-win.
Originally Posted by blupupher
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall
The first part is not really so in practice. The oil pump in these 5.4L engines has a steel backplate that leaks oil. The result is that thin oils don't get to the tensioners and VCT/Phasers properly (with sufficient pressure and volume) . Especially the LH cylinder head. Furthermore the tensioner gasket has a tendency to leak or blow out. A bit of the thin oil escapes here too. Leading to very low oil pressure at the head. Measurements of 5W-20 use show 5 PSI at the head when hot and near zero at idle.
A bone stock 5.4 3V engine benefits from a viscosity higher than 5W-20 in most locations.
I use 10W-30 synthetic with good results.
It's fairly well established now that 100K-120K is when problems start using thin oil in hot climates. And 200K when using a higher viscosity. There are always exceptions and so on, but the dealerships that do the work see the same things over and over and over.....
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall
The first part is not really so in practice. The oil pump in these 5.4L engines has a steel backplate that leaks oil. The result is that thin oils don't get to the tensioners and VCT/Phasers properly (with sufficient pressure and volume) . Especially the LH cylinder head. Furthermore the tensioner gasket has a tendency to leak or blow out. A bit of the thin oil escapes here too. Leading to very low oil pressure at the head. Measurements of 5W-20 use show 5 PSI at the head when hot and near zero at idle.
A bone stock 5.4 3V engine benefits from a viscosity higher than 5W-20 in most locations.
I use 10W-30 synthetic with good results.
It's fairly well established now that 100K-120K is when problems start using thin oil in hot climates. And 200K when using a higher viscosity. There are always exceptions and so on, but the dealerships that do the work see the same things over and over and over.....
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by blupupher
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall
The first part is not really so in practice. The oil pump in these 5.4L engines has a steel backplate that leaks oil. The result is that thin oils don't get to the tensioners and VCT/Phasers properly. Especially the LH cylinder head. Furthermore the tensioner gasket has a tendency to leak or blow out. A bit of the thin oil escapes here too. Leading to very low oil pressure at the head. Measurements of 5W-20 use show 5 PSI at the head when hot and near zero at idle.
A bone stock 5.4 3V engine benefits from a viscosity higher than 5W-20 in most locations.
I use 10W-30 synthetic with good results.
Nice info. I knew oil had a hard time getting to the cam fazerz, but I didn't know the oil pumps also leaked. Do you know many miles on this engine and it's oil change history?
Originally Posted by blupupher
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall
The first part is not really so in practice. The oil pump in these 5.4L engines has a steel backplate that leaks oil. The result is that thin oils don't get to the tensioners and VCT/Phasers properly. Especially the LH cylinder head. Furthermore the tensioner gasket has a tendency to leak or blow out. A bit of the thin oil escapes here too. Leading to very low oil pressure at the head. Measurements of 5W-20 use show 5 PSI at the head when hot and near zero at idle.
A bone stock 5.4 3V engine benefits from a viscosity higher than 5W-20 in most locations.
I use 10W-30 synthetic with good results.
Nice info. I knew oil had a hard time getting to the cam fazerz, but I didn't know the oil pumps also leaked. Do you know many miles on this engine and it's oil change history?
I experienced that in my 18 Taurus 3.5L duratec. First oil change was ST 5w30 syn, then I had warranty fix an oil leak so I changed it again after that to flush out any silicone and used RTG 0w20 and noticed its alot quieter and seems smoother taking off. Guess I'll stick with it till the miles are high.
5w30 all years round
When I had my 5.4 f150 I ran OW-40 Mobil1. It seemed to like it better than anything else. I usually don't run anything other than what is on the cap, but I made an exception for that engine because of its inherent problems.
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by blupupher
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall
The first part is not really so in practice. The oil pump in these 5.4L engines has a steel backplate that leaks oil. The result is that thin oils don't get to the tensioners and VCT/Phasers properly (with sufficient pressure and volume) . Especially the LH cylinder head. Furthermore the tensioner gasket has a tendency to leak or blow out. A bit of the thin oil escapes here too. Leading to very low oil pressure at the head. Measurements of 5W-20 use show 5 PSI at the head when hot and near zero at idle.
A bone stock 5.4 3V engine benefits from a viscosity higher than 5W-20 in most locations.
I use 10W-30 synthetic with good results.
It's fairly well established now that 100K-120K is when problems start using thin oil in hot climates. And 200K when using a higher viscosity. There are always exceptions and so on, but the dealerships that do the work see the same things over and over and over.....
I agree, that's why I stated "arguments". You hear both ways, with some convincing explanations for both.
In the end, it is a poor design on Fords part.
Almost every post/how to page/video on fixing the phasers/timing chain/tensioners also says you must upgrade the oil pump (Melling 340 or 360 I believe??) to actually "fix" the problem (as well as changing the VCT solenoids). Most also say to use a xw-30 oil and do shorter oil changes (
As I said, my brother in laws 3v 5.4 is the only one I have personal experience with. His motor has been louder and more of the diesel sound with 5w-30 oils (being conventional oils from local oil change places before I started doing the changes). The first time I changed the oil for him his truck sounded horrible, drained out some bulk 5w-30, put in some Castrol 5w-20 syn-blend, and within 5 minutes, the motor was much quieter. Last 5 changes had been with varisous syn blends and syn oils, but all 5w-20 oils, and always quiet. Till the last one that I decided to use some Castrol Magnatec 10w-30 in, and the motor is still quiet.
No idea what oil will go in next, but probably some more syn 5w-20 I have in my stash (I mean, I don't want to use any of my "good" RGT oil on his truck
).
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
I've seen your filter cut open videos on that truck. Are you only using the tough guard kn that vehicle or is that your filter of choice on others as well?
I use whatever filter I have handy.
Currently it has a Supertec on it because I did not want to use my "good" filters from my stash on it (same filter fits my truck).
They always have tons of metal when cut apart, so not really concerned about the filter that much (so long as it does not tear). One of several reasons I do 4,000 mile intervals.
Originally Posted by blupupher
There are arguments for both on those motors.
Arguments for thin oil is the VCT solinoids and phaser working "better" as well as getting the timing chain tensioners under pressure faster.
Arguments for thick are better oil pressure overall
The first part is not really so in practice. The oil pump in these 5.4L engines has a steel backplate that leaks oil. The result is that thin oils don't get to the tensioners and VCT/Phasers properly (with sufficient pressure and volume) . Especially the LH cylinder head. Furthermore the tensioner gasket has a tendency to leak or blow out. A bit of the thin oil escapes here too. Leading to very low oil pressure at the head. Measurements of 5W-20 use show 5 PSI at the head when hot and near zero at idle.
A bone stock 5.4 3V engine benefits from a viscosity higher than 5W-20 in most locations.
I use 10W-30 synthetic with good results.
It's fairly well established now that 100K-120K is when problems start using thin oil in hot climates. And 200K when using a higher viscosity. There are always exceptions and so on, but the dealerships that do the work see the same things over and over and over.....
I agree, that's why I stated "arguments". You hear both ways, with some convincing explanations for both.
In the end, it is a poor design on Fords part.
Almost every post/how to page/video on fixing the phasers/timing chain/tensioners also says you must upgrade the oil pump (Melling 340 or 360 I believe??) to actually "fix" the problem (as well as changing the VCT solenoids). Most also say to use a xw-30 oil and do shorter oil changes (
As I said, my brother in laws 3v 5.4 is the only one I have personal experience with. His motor has been louder and more of the diesel sound with 5w-30 oils (being conventional oils from local oil change places before I started doing the changes). The first time I changed the oil for him his truck sounded horrible, drained out some bulk 5w-30, put in some Castrol 5w-20 syn-blend, and within 5 minutes, the motor was much quieter. Last 5 changes had been with varisous syn blends and syn oils, but all 5w-20 oils, and always quiet. Till the last one that I decided to use some Castrol Magnatec 10w-30 in, and the motor is still quiet.
No idea what oil will go in next, but probably some more syn 5w-20 I have in my stash (I mean, I don't want to use any of my "good" RGT oil on his truck
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
I've seen your filter cut open videos on that truck. Are you only using the tough guard kn that vehicle or is that your filter of choice on others as well?
I use whatever filter I have handy.
Currently it has a Supertec on it because I did not want to use my "good" filters from my stash on it (same filter fits my truck).
They always have tons of metal when cut apart, so not really concerned about the filter that much (so long as it does not tear). One of several reasons I do 4,000 mile intervals.
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