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Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5301952 12/22/19 09:38 PM
Joined: May 2019
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AC1DD Offline
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Originally Posted by Gebo



TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.

Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."

All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!


Although some differences might be small, with a electronically controlled transmission the logic can adapt and change even according to the viscosity of the fluid.
The Toyota OEM fluid was extensively tested with your Lexus and we specified for a reason...I'd bet that the slightly different viscosity and additives have changed the transmission computers shifting quality. Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.

Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5301977 12/22/19 10:15 PM
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gregk24 Offline
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Im not surprised at all.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
60,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
54,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5301993 12/22/19 10:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
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69Torino Offline
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Quote
Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.



Devil’s advocate speaking;

I use Maxlife ATF in a lot of stuff, but I would most certainly not use it in my Torino. The Torino specifies Ford Type F Fluid. The best options for that application are B&M Trick Shift, Amsoil Torque Drive, Amsoil Super Shift, and TCI Max Shift (pretty sure TCI is made by Torco). I don’t have rose colored glasses on all the time. 🤓

Cruise-O-Matics, FMX, C-4, C-5, and C-6 Fords get Type F or equivalent. Period. No exceptions.

Maxlife would be too light, and could possibly induce clutch slippage in a Type F application. Especially when some horsepower is available.


1969 Ford Torino GT 390 Auto
2003 Mercury Marauder
1992 Mercury Capri Convertible
2000 Nissan Xterra
2008 Hyundai Santa Fe
1947 Ford 2N
1978 Honda XL75
Plus Other Stuff...
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: frankbee3] #5301999 12/22/19 11:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,211
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Gebo Offline OP
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Posts: 4,211
Originally Posted by frankbee3
That is a really good and effective psychosomatic tune-up, I’d say. Even your family is in on it!

In all seriousness though, did you put the Dexron III in your LS400? That is a fantastic result!

I am interested to know if it was a drain and fill or a complete fluid exchange?

I am reluctant to try global AT fluids that are “one flavor fits most”.


LS400 got T-IV

The Toyota bottled Dexron III was for my 4Runner


I did 6 drain and fills on the LS400


'98 LEX LS400 305K
'02 4Runner 250K
'05 Lex LS430 90K
'07 Lex GX470 70K

Shell Gas and Truck 5W-30
QS HM 10W-30
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: AC1DD] #5302042 12/23/19 01:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,896
dave1251 Offline
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Posts: 12,896
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Gebo



TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.

Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."

All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!


Although some differences might be small, with a electronically controlled transmission the logic can adapt and change even according to the viscosity of the fluid.
The Toyota OEM fluid was extensively tested with your Lexus and we specified for a reason...I'd bet that the slightly different viscosity and additives have changed the transmission computers shifting quality. Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.



You are funny. The "Toyota OEM" fluid was DEXRON III with a longer service life nothing unusual. Why does this myth Transmission fluids are exotic vehicle specific concoctions? It's like saying AC Delco 0W20 can not be used in a Toyota because the engine will stall.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302054 12/23/19 01:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 14,490
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Sayjac Offline
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This thread is like Deja vu, all over again imo. Just so readers can have full context to the previous thread referenced in the OP, for accuracy sake it's linked here. Title even similar, "Changes after Changing ATF's".

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5107909/1

Contrary to the multiple attempts in the OP used to explain the anecdotal observations last time, the term was/is "confirmation bias". Nothing in this latest thread would lead me to change that assessment. Anyone that has read OPs comments this subforum and others knows his predilection to using only oem products. Specifically as regards ATF in his applications, advice against using synthetic based ATFs including multivehicle types, MaxLife MV often being the target. So with that as context, readers are now up to speed. Carry on.

Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302067 12/23/19 02:33 AM
Joined: May 2009
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Y_K Offline
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Thank you for sharing


Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: dave1251] #5302071 12/23/19 02:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,910
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Oro_O Offline
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Originally Posted by Gebo


You are funny. The "Toyota OEM" fluid was DEXRON III with a longer service life nothing unusual. Why does this myth Transmission fluids are exotic vehicle specific concoctions? It's like saying AC Delco 0W20 can not be used in a Toyota because the engine will stall.


I have observed the same thing.

For a number of years, I used MaxLife and Mag1 LV in our 2002 ES300 - which was spec'd T-IV (aka Mobil 3309). For the last two or three years, I've been feeding it T-IV or Mobil 3309. It has been getting a drain/fill about every 25k since 150k. It is now running smoother than any time we've owned it (long time, but 2nd owners). It now has 315k miles on it and shifts excellently; better than the past.

And, like the OP, I have blind confirmation of it. I never mentioned it to her - and it's her daily driver. She noted the difference without any knowledge of the change or prompting/request for an opinion from me.

Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302087 12/23/19 05:50 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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In older vehicles I noticed what I considered a slight improvement. In newer vehicles they seem to stay the same. I don't change ATF for an improvement, I change it to preserve and extend the life of a well maintained transmission.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302131 12/23/19 07:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
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Gebo Offline OP
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Just to clarify, I pled guilty as charged with “confirmation bias” playing a factor in my initial mass ATF changes several months ago. I was hyper sensitive in trying to attempt to “feel” any changes. I did 8 vehicles in a month. Each vehicle had a minimum of 4 drain and fills. And 3 of them didn’t have dipsticks if you know what I mean. My mind got a little fuzzy. LOL

There were changes but over time I found they were “normal” shifting changes.

ALL I am speaking of here is the periodic jerk on take off from a dead stop. It’s like the accelerator sticks and then releases. I’m not talking about any overall shifting pattern. Just that initial movement from 0 mph. It has vanished by my switching to Toyota T-IV. Remember, this LS400 has been in my family since 2001. I know her every little squeak and dot and tittle.
My mind and sensory reception has now been rebooted and is clear.

I was a little afraid to do this post knowing the “psychologists” here may try to discredit my testimony. I am a 95% OEM guy. I might use a Moog suspension part here and there (please forgive me). Please forgive me for trusting and having faith in OEM Toyota/Lexus parts.

It’s interesting to me how some people try to prove their points at the expense of hurting others. I’m just sharing my testimony.
If you want to attack me, just PM me. You can really bless me out there. drive

Last edited by Gebo; 12/23/19 07:37 AM.

'98 LEX LS400 305K
'02 4Runner 250K
'05 Lex LS430 90K
'07 Lex GX470 70K

Shell Gas and Truck 5W-30
QS HM 10W-30
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: demarpaint] #5302137 12/23/19 07:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,211
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Gebo Offline OP
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
In older vehicles I noticed what I considered a slight improvement. In newer vehicles they seem to stay the same. I don't change ATF for an improvement, I change it to preserve and extend the life of a well maintained transmission.



I agree 100%. I’m all about longevity. How often do you do drain and fills?

As a side note, I thought the jerking was “normal” as I had tried to “fix” from about 2002-2010. I had just accepted it as a quirk to my car. Sorta like my own quirks.

Last edited by Gebo; 12/23/19 07:43 AM.

'98 LEX LS400 305K
'02 4Runner 250K
'05 Lex LS430 90K
'07 Lex GX470 70K

Shell Gas and Truck 5W-30
QS HM 10W-30
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302138 12/23/19 07:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 34,132
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demarpaint Offline
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Posts: 34,132
Originally Posted by Gebo
Just to clarify, I pled guilty as charged with “confirmation bias” playing a factor in my initial mass ATF changes several months ago. I was hyper sensitive in trying to attempt to “feel” any changes. I did 8 vehicles in a month. Each vehicle had a minimum of 4 drain and fills. And 3 of them didn’t have dipsticks if you know what I mean. My mind got a little fuzzy. LOL

There were changes but over time I found they were “normal” shifting changes.

ALL I am speaking of here is the periodic jerk on take off from a dead stop. It’s like the accelerator sticks and then releases. I’m not talking about any overall shifting pattern. Just that initial movement from 0 mph. It has vanished by my switching to Toyota T-IV. Remember, this LS400 has been in my family since 2001. I know her every little squeak and dot and tittle.
My mind and sensory reception has now been rebooted and is clear.

I was a little afraid to do this post knowing the “psychologists” here may try to discredit my testimony. I am a 95% OEM guy. I might use a Moog suspension part here and there (please forgive me). Please forgive me for trusting and having faith in OEM Toyota/Lexus parts.

It’s interesting to me how some people try to prove their points at the expense of hurting others. I’m just sharing my testimony.
If you want to attack me, just PM me. You can really bless me out there. drive

No attack from me. I was just stating my observations. I've heard many times over the years a transmission fluid change, greatly improved transmission performance and operation. Which I believe to be true in many cases. Merry Christmas!


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: demarpaint] #5302145 12/23/19 07:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,211
G
Gebo Offline OP
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Posts: 4,211
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Gebo
Just to clarify, I pled guilty as charged with “confirmation bias” playing a factor in my initial mass ATF changes several months ago. I was hyper sensitive in trying to attempt to “feel” any changes. I did 8 vehicles in a month. Each vehicle had a minimum of 4 drain and fills. And 3 of them didn’t have dipsticks if you know what I mean. My mind got a little fuzzy. LOL

There were changes but over time I found they were “normal” shifting changes.

ALL I am speaking of here is the periodic jerk on take off from a dead stop. It’s like the accelerator sticks and then releases. I’m not talking about any overall shifting pattern. Just that initial movement from 0 mph. It has vanished by my switching to Toyota T-IV. Remember, this LS400 has been in my family since 2001. I know her every little squeak and dot and tittle.
My mind and sensory reception has now been rebooted and is clear.

I was a little afraid to do this post knowing the “psychologists” here may try to discredit my testimony. I am a 95% OEM guy. I might use a Moog suspension part here and there (please forgive me). Please forgive me for trusting and having faith in OEM Toyota/Lexus parts.

It’s interesting to me how some people try to prove their points at the expense of hurting others. I’m just sharing my testimony.
If you want to attack me, just PM me. You can really bless me out there. drive

No attack from me. I was just stating my observations. I've heard many times over the years a transmission fluid change, greatly improved transmission performance and operation. Which I believe to be true in many cases. Merry Christmas!


Oh No!! I know you would never attack me. You have done nothing but help me. Remember the bathroom walls
cheers
Merry Christmas to you and your family!!!


'98 LEX LS400 305K
'02 4Runner 250K
'05 Lex LS430 90K
'07 Lex GX470 70K

Shell Gas and Truck 5W-30
QS HM 10W-30
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302198 12/23/19 08:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 34,132
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Gebo
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Gebo
Just to clarify, I pled guilty as charged with “confirmation bias” playing a factor in my initial mass ATF changes several months ago. I was hyper sensitive in trying to attempt to “feel” any changes. I did 8 vehicles in a month. Each vehicle had a minimum of 4 drain and fills. And 3 of them didn’t have dipsticks if you know what I mean. My mind got a little fuzzy. LOL

There were changes but over time I found they were “normal” shifting changes.

ALL I am speaking of here is the periodic jerk on take off from a dead stop. It’s like the accelerator sticks and then releases. I’m not talking about any overall shifting pattern. Just that initial movement from 0 mph. It has vanished by my switching to Toyota T-IV. Remember, this LS400 has been in my family since 2001. I know her every little squeak and dot and tittle.
My mind and sensory reception has now been rebooted and is clear.

I was a little afraid to do this post knowing the “psychologists” here may try to discredit my testimony. I am a 95% OEM guy. I might use a Moog suspension part here and there (please forgive me). Please forgive me for trusting and having faith in OEM Toyota/Lexus parts.

It’s interesting to me how some people try to prove their points at the expense of hurting others. I’m just sharing my testimony.
If you want to attack me, just PM me. You can really bless me out there. drive

No attack from me. I was just stating my observations. I've heard many times over the years a transmission fluid change, greatly improved transmission performance and operation. Which I believe to be true in many cases. Merry Christmas!


Oh No!! I know you would never attack me. You have done nothing but help me. Remember the bathroom walls
cheers
Merry Christmas to you and your family!!!

I know, and I was happy to help! I just didn't want it to be taken the wrong way. Often people will post about improvements in sound, and/or how a vehicle performs from doing a fluid or oil change and get quickly attacked because they can't offer some kind of scientific proof to back it up. I recall having an issue with the transmission in a 66 Falcon I owned when I was in HS. The transmission was starting to act up at just over 100 K miles. It was a hand me down and the transmission was never serviced. A pan drop, fluid and filter change had it operating like new again, no data or scientific evidence to prove it, but the filter was starting to load up, and the fluid was tired. wink


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior [Re: Gebo] #5302227 12/23/19 09:23 AM
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Miller88 Offline
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My Jeep Cherokee with the A340 / AW-4 transmission shifts much better - quicker, firmer but also smoother on Dex VI. It was specified for DIII from the factory. I keep using the Dex VI. I change the fluid often, so it wasn't from changing from warn out fluid to new fluid.


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
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