Changing ATF's and Shifting Behavior
- Thread starter Gebo
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Well, today the LS400 shifted just like it did in the past. It hung on in a low gear until I got about down the hill. So, any "hard" evidence I had 3 weeks ago is not larger admissible in court. Actually, today it stayed in the lower gear until I got almost to the bottom.
I am going to disconnect every battery in every car and leave it be for an hour or so.
I am going to disconnect every battery in every car and leave it be for an hour or so.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Did you disconnect the battery anytime during or before the change?
To me it sounds like the shift logic got reset.
This is so good. I noticed my jump starter thingy (that Scotty Kilmer recommended) I keep in the trunk of the LS400 had been moved. I asked my son if he had used it lately. Sometimes our lawnmower battery dies as I have two and one doesn't get run much. He said he had left the passenger door open on thLS400 and when he realized the battery was dead, he jumped it and let it run. SO>>>Yes, I guess you could say the battery was disconnected. LOL
Did you disconnect the battery anytime during or before the change?
To me it sounds like the shift logic got reset.
This is so good. I noticed my jump starter thingy (that Scotty Kilmer recommended) I keep in the trunk of the LS400 had been moved. I asked my son if he had used it lately. Sometimes our lawnmower battery dies as I have two and one doesn't get run much. He said he had left the passenger door open on thLS400 and when he realized the battery was dead, he jumped it and let it run. SO>>>Yes, I guess you could say the battery was disconnected. LOL
Some of you may remember I got convicted of mistreating my AT's about 6 months ago. After watching all of John Kelly's Weber State YouTubes I felt so guilty that I had mistreated my AT's that I went
and purchased Toyota T-IV, WS and Dexron III for all my cars. I had been using a well known synthetic ATF in all of them. I had been using it for about 250K in my LS400. So please read this very
carefully and don't try and read my mind. My wife can't read my mind after 37 years so I know you can't just by reading my texts for a year or two.
As soon as I changed the fluid, I thought I noticed one of my cars shifted differently. Some psychologists on this forum said I had "wishful thinking bias" or some such disorder. Maybe it
was "positive prejudicial conformation." I'm not sure but I think they were saying I was imagining changes taking place that were not really happening to justify my decision in changing ATF's.
My brain was trying to prove my point by messing up my sensory input.
Without going into detail, initial shifting patterns did change but it wasn't due to the fluid.
Please note, obviously using this synthetic ATF did not affect the longevity of my transmission as far as I can tell. I think you will agree over 305,000 miles is a decent run on any transmission.
However, after many miles here is one observation that I know is not bias. It has been noticed by my family. It is repeatable. It was my wife who pointed it out to me. I hadn't noticed until
she said something to me and then my son and daughter vouched for her. It was my wife that didn't like to ride in the LS400 because of the sporadic jerking on take off.
TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.
Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."
All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!
and purchased Toyota T-IV, WS and Dexron III for all my cars. I had been using a well known synthetic ATF in all of them. I had been using it for about 250K in my LS400. So please read this very
carefully and don't try and read my mind. My wife can't read my mind after 37 years so I know you can't just by reading my texts for a year or two.
As soon as I changed the fluid, I thought I noticed one of my cars shifted differently. Some psychologists on this forum said I had "wishful thinking bias" or some such disorder. Maybe it
was "positive prejudicial conformation." I'm not sure but I think they were saying I was imagining changes taking place that were not really happening to justify my decision in changing ATF's.
My brain was trying to prove my point by messing up my sensory input.
Without going into detail, initial shifting patterns did change but it wasn't due to the fluid.
Please note, obviously using this synthetic ATF did not affect the longevity of my transmission as far as I can tell. I think you will agree over 305,000 miles is a decent run on any transmission.
However, after many miles here is one observation that I know is not bias. It has been noticed by my family. It is repeatable. It was my wife who pointed it out to me. I hadn't noticed until
she said something to me and then my son and daughter vouched for her. It was my wife that didn't like to ride in the LS400 because of the sporadic jerking on take off.
TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.
Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."
All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!
Nobody likes a jerk, glad you solved yours.
new ATF fluid is in itself a solvent, or acts like one
thus when filled to a tranny already in service, it can and will dislodge some crud, varnish from old/burnt fluid, metallic/clutch particles...
thus when filled to a tranny already in service, it can and will dislodge some crud, varnish from old/burnt fluid, metallic/clutch particles...
Originally Posted by discountdon
new ATF fluid is in itself a solvent, or acts like one
thus when filled to a tranny already in service, it can and will dislodge some crud, varnish from old/burnt fluid, metallic/clutch particles...
It may clean only by dilution. There is little in the way of detergents and no solvents in atf. Some people believe this and add it to engine oil, but it's just not so.
new ATF fluid is in itself a solvent, or acts like one
thus when filled to a tranny already in service, it can and will dislodge some crud, varnish from old/burnt fluid, metallic/clutch particles...
It may clean only by dilution. There is little in the way of detergents and no solvents in atf. Some people believe this and add it to engine oil, but it's just not so.
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Now you know why there are dozens of different ATF specifications. I'm glad you have seen the light.
That is a really good and effective psychosomatic tune-up, I'd say. Even your family is in on it!
In all seriousness though, did you put the Dexron III in your LS400? That is a fantastic result!
I am interested to know if it was a drain and fill or a complete fluid exchange?
I am reluctant to try global AT fluids that are "one flavor fits most".
In all seriousness though, did you put the Dexron III in your LS400? That is a fantastic result!
I am interested to know if it was a drain and fill or a complete fluid exchange?
I am reluctant to try global AT fluids that are "one flavor fits most".
Originally Posted by Gebo
TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.
Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."
All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!
Although some differences might be small, with a electronically controlled transmission the logic can adapt and change even according to the viscosity of the fluid.
The Toyota OEM fluid was extensively tested with your Lexus and we specified for a reason...I'd bet that the slightly different viscosity and additives have changed the transmission computers shifting quality. Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.
TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.
Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."
All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!
Although some differences might be small, with a electronically controlled transmission the logic can adapt and change even according to the viscosity of the fluid.
The Toyota OEM fluid was extensively tested with your Lexus and we specified for a reason...I'd bet that the slightly different viscosity and additives have changed the transmission computers shifting quality. Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.
Quote
Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.
Devil's advocate speaking;
I use Maxlife ATF in a lot of stuff, but I would most certainly not use it in my Torino. The Torino specifies Ford Type F Fluid. The best options for that application are B&M Trick Shift, Amsoil Torque Drive, Amsoil Super Shift, and TCI Max Shift (pretty sure TCI is made by Torco). I don't have rose colored glasses on all the time. 🤓
Cruise-O-Matics, FMX, C-4, C-5, and C-6 Fords get Type F or equivalent. Period. No exceptions.
Maxlife would be too light, and could possibly induce clutch slippage in a Type F application. Especially when some horsepower is available.
Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.
Devil's advocate speaking;
I use Maxlife ATF in a lot of stuff, but I would most certainly not use it in my Torino. The Torino specifies Ford Type F Fluid. The best options for that application are B&M Trick Shift, Amsoil Torque Drive, Amsoil Super Shift, and TCI Max Shift (pretty sure TCI is made by Torco). I don't have rose colored glasses on all the time. 🤓
Cruise-O-Matics, FMX, C-4, C-5, and C-6 Fords get Type F or equivalent. Period. No exceptions.
Maxlife would be too light, and could possibly induce clutch slippage in a Type F application. Especially when some horsepower is available.
Originally Posted by frankbee3
That is a really good and effective psychosomatic tune-up, I'd say. Even your family is in on it!
In all seriousness though, did you put the Dexron III in your LS400? That is a fantastic result!
I am interested to know if it was a drain and fill or a complete fluid exchange?
I am reluctant to try global AT fluids that are "one flavor fits most".
LS400 got T-IV
The Toyota bottled Dexron III was for my 4Runner
I did 6 drain and fills on the LS400
That is a really good and effective psychosomatic tune-up, I'd say. Even your family is in on it!
In all seriousness though, did you put the Dexron III in your LS400? That is a fantastic result!
I am interested to know if it was a drain and fill or a complete fluid exchange?
I am reluctant to try global AT fluids that are "one flavor fits most".
LS400 got T-IV
The Toyota bottled Dexron III was for my 4Runner
I did 6 drain and fills on the LS400
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Gebo
TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.
Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."
All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!
Although some differences might be small, with a electronically controlled transmission the logic can adapt and change even according to the viscosity of the fluid.
The Toyota OEM fluid was extensively tested with your Lexus and we specified for a reason...I'd bet that the slightly different viscosity and additives have changed the transmission computers shifting quality. Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.
You are funny. The "Toyota OEM" fluid was DEXRON III with a longer service life nothing unusual. Why does this myth Transmission fluids are exotic vehicle specific concoctions? It's like saying AC Delco 0W20 can not be used in a Toyota because the engine will stall.
Originally Posted by Gebo
TADA>>>Here is the change in shifting that has happened with my 305,000 mile LS400. Before there would be many times it would jerk on take off from a standing still start. Not every time but
about 1/2 the time. Almost a "whiplash" jerk. I had cleaned the throttle body, disconnected battery, etc trying to get a smooth take off. I finally just accepted it as "it is what it is." It has done
it for as long as I can remember. It has done it for years. I have had my baby since 2001 and she is my favorite car of all time. There will never be another as reliable as she.
Well, this "jerk" is gone. It never happens. My standing start take offs are like all my other cars. I don't know if there is a mechanical reason for this. I don't know if changing the fluid to what
the car maker calls for stopped the jerking. I don't know if the transmission has gotten older and more "worn out."
All I know is the jerking on take off is gone. Kaput!
Although some differences might be small, with a electronically controlled transmission the logic can adapt and change even according to the viscosity of the fluid.
The Toyota OEM fluid was extensively tested with your Lexus and we specified for a reason...I'd bet that the slightly different viscosity and additives have changed the transmission computers shifting quality. Multi use fluids usually aren't perfect and slight changes in shift quality might be a result,...cough cough...Valvoline Max Life ATF.
You are funny. The "Toyota OEM" fluid was DEXRON III with a longer service life nothing unusual. Why does this myth Transmission fluids are exotic vehicle specific concoctions? It's like saying AC Delco 0W20 can not be used in a Toyota because the engine will stall.
This thread is like Deja vu, all over again imo. Just so readers can have full context to the previous thread referenced in the OP, for accuracy sake it's linked here. Title even similar, "Changes after Changing ATF's".
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5107909/1
Contrary to the multiple attempts in the OP used to explain the anecdotal observations last time, the term was/is "confirmation bias". Nothing in this latest thread would lead me to change that assessment. Anyone that has read OPs comments this subforum and others knows his predilection to using only oem products. Specifically as regards ATF in his applications, advice against using synthetic based ATFs including multivehicle types, MaxLife MV often being the target. So with that as context, readers are now up to speed. Carry on.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5107909/1
Contrary to the multiple attempts in the OP used to explain the anecdotal observations last time, the term was/is "confirmation bias". Nothing in this latest thread would lead me to change that assessment. Anyone that has read OPs comments this subforum and others knows his predilection to using only oem products. Specifically as regards ATF in his applications, advice against using synthetic based ATFs including multivehicle types, MaxLife MV often being the target. So with that as context, readers are now up to speed. Carry on.
Originally Posted by Gebo
You are funny. The "Toyota OEM" fluid was DEXRON III with a longer service life nothing unusual. Why does this myth Transmission fluids are exotic vehicle specific concoctions? It's like saying AC Delco 0W20 can not be used in a Toyota because the engine will stall.
I have observed the same thing.
For a number of years, I used MaxLife and Mag1 LV in our 2002 ES300 - which was spec'd T-IV (aka Mobil 3309). For the last two or three years, I've been feeding it T-IV or Mobil 3309. It has been getting a drain/fill about every 25k since 150k. It is now running smoother than any time we've owned it (long time, but 2nd owners). It now has 315k miles on it and shifts excellently; better than the past.
And, like the OP, I have blind confirmation of it. I never mentioned it to her - and it's her daily driver. She noted the difference without any knowledge of the change or prompting/request for an opinion from me.
You are funny. The "Toyota OEM" fluid was DEXRON III with a longer service life nothing unusual. Why does this myth Transmission fluids are exotic vehicle specific concoctions? It's like saying AC Delco 0W20 can not be used in a Toyota because the engine will stall.
I have observed the same thing.
For a number of years, I used MaxLife and Mag1 LV in our 2002 ES300 - which was spec'd T-IV (aka Mobil 3309). For the last two or three years, I've been feeding it T-IV or Mobil 3309. It has been getting a drain/fill about every 25k since 150k. It is now running smoother than any time we've owned it (long time, but 2nd owners). It now has 315k miles on it and shifts excellently; better than the past.
And, like the OP, I have blind confirmation of it. I never mentioned it to her - and it's her daily driver. She noted the difference without any knowledge of the change or prompting/request for an opinion from me.
In older vehicles I noticed what I considered a slight improvement. In newer vehicles they seem to stay the same. I don't change ATF for an improvement, I change it to preserve and extend the life of a well maintained transmission.
Just to clarify, I pled guilty as charged with "confirmation bias" playing a factor in my initial mass ATF changes several months ago. I was hyper sensitive in trying to attempt to "feel" any changes. I did 8 vehicles in a month. Each vehicle had a minimum of 4 drain and fills. And 3 of them didn't have dipsticks if you know what I mean. My mind got a little fuzzy. LOL
There were changes but over time I found they were "normal" shifting changes.
ALL I am speaking of here is the periodic jerk on take off from a dead stop. It's like the accelerator sticks and then releases. I'm not talking about any overall shifting pattern. Just that initial movement from 0 mph. It has vanished by my switching to Toyota T-IV. Remember, this LS400 has been in my family since 2001. I know her every little squeak and dot and tittle.
My mind and sensory reception has now been rebooted and is clear.
I was a little afraid to do this post knowing the "psychologists" here may try to discredit my testimony. I am a 95% OEM guy. I might use a Moog suspension part here and there (please forgive me). Please forgive me for trusting and having faith in OEM Toyota/Lexus parts.
It's interesting to me how some people try to prove their points at the expense of hurting others. I'm just sharing my testimony.
If you want to attack me, just PM me. You can really bless me out there.
There were changes but over time I found they were "normal" shifting changes.
ALL I am speaking of here is the periodic jerk on take off from a dead stop. It's like the accelerator sticks and then releases. I'm not talking about any overall shifting pattern. Just that initial movement from 0 mph. It has vanished by my switching to Toyota T-IV. Remember, this LS400 has been in my family since 2001. I know her every little squeak and dot and tittle.
My mind and sensory reception has now been rebooted and is clear.
I was a little afraid to do this post knowing the "psychologists" here may try to discredit my testimony. I am a 95% OEM guy. I might use a Moog suspension part here and there (please forgive me). Please forgive me for trusting and having faith in OEM Toyota/Lexus parts.
It's interesting to me how some people try to prove their points at the expense of hurting others. I'm just sharing my testimony.
If you want to attack me, just PM me. You can really bless me out there.
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