Planned Changes at Honda

[grampi]

Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon.
These are from Honda's good old days:

Prelude

Accord

Civic

I agree completely. Honda has completely trashed the looks of the Civic. To me, the best looking Civics were the '06-'11 models. Now they have the "boy racers" look, as you said and they look horrible...

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon.
These are from Honda's good old days:

Prelude

Accord

Civic

I agree completely. Honda has completely trashed the looks of the Civic. To me, the best looking Civics were the '06-'11 models. Now they have the "boy racers" look, as you said and they look horrible...


Ya, because their own internal data shows that when it comes to the Civic there's a vast underserved market of adults with the last name Kilmer.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon.
These are from Honda's good old days:

Prelude

Accord

Civic

I agree completely. Honda has completely trashed the looks of the Civic. To me, the best looking Civics were the '06-'11 models. Now they have the "boy racers" look, as you said and they look horrible...


Ya, because their own internal data shows that when it comes to the Civic there's a vast underserved market of adults with the last name Kilmer.

It's obvious Honda is aiming the Civic at the younger generations and they couldn't give a hoot about people with money...

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by AC1DD
What I've always wondered is why the family didn't speak out about how the company increasingly strayed from what made the company great.

I've read that one of Soichiro Honda's sons who ran Mugen got into trouble with the Japanese authorities for tax evasion or fraud. Another theory was that the Honda family didn't want their children involved in the family business.

Unlike Toyota with the Toyoda family or Ford, Honda doesn't have a family member involved on the board or the C-suite.



That's very interesting, can you point me to the source on the internet?

I'm a little surprised that the family wouldn't want involvement since it's pretty ingrained in Japan that the leaders or founders of a company usually pass the torch to sons on many occasions, at least it was that way. Even though I'm not a huge fan of Toyota and question some of the latest CEO Akio Toyoda at least seems to have a genuine family passion for making sure that the company ship stays on course, you can feel the passion with him as the great grandson of the founder, and it still seems to radiate from the company and Its products even today...I think things have improved greatly at Toyota since Akio took over from the last non-family CEO. You can sense the last of passion at Honda these days....
it's very tangible to me compared to Toyota. It would be nice if somehow a great grand son or relation would take the torch if qualified.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
[/quote]


That's very interesting, can you point me to the source on the internet?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirotoshi_Honda - the citations check out. and https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2007/09/20/national/mugen-guilty-of-tax-evasion/

I found this too:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/mugen-founder-hirotoshi-honda-why-he-didn%E2%80%99t-follow-his-father%E2%80%99s-footsteps

 

[AC1DD]

@nthach

Thanks for the links I'm going to read them!

 

[goldspoon]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
The Japanese automakers need to start making them in Japan again.


Agree! Not just where they assemble the models but also start manufacturing the parts in Japan!

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by goldspoon
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
The Japanese automakers need to start making them in Japan again.


Agree! Not just where they assemble the models but also start manufacturing the parts in Japan!

Meh, there are so many US-made Corollas and Camrys that routinely hit the 200-300K mark before they are scrapped or wrecked. I dunno about Honda or Nissan, but Toyota does make it a point to make their Japanese and US production almost seamless and each overseas plant has a Japanese sister plant they train at. Their plant in KY is the largest plant they have outside of Japan.

 

[buster]

I'm not sure location has anything to do with it.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by buster
I'm not sure location has anything to do with it.


Owning a Honda Pilot and spending some time on various Honda forums I can say Honda's issues are a combination of poor design/engineering and build quality. If I look at my issues with the Pilot they can be divided into:

1. Build quality issues - Failed rear differential seal, failed HVAC blower motor, second row seat bench needs to be replaced due to too much play and poor build quality, third row squeak fixed by torquing down seat bolts which were loose, poor fitting interior trim pieces, paint issue.

2. Design issues - 9-speed AT, rear suspension design, infotainment.

Most of my issues could be fixed by using better parts/materials putting those parts/material together better. Is that a function of parts and vehicle made in the USA? Who knows, but my issues are relatively common in the problems and complaints sections of various forums.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by goldspoon
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
The Japanese automakers need to start making them in Japan again.


Agree! Not just where they assemble the models but also start manufacturing the parts in Japan!

Meh, there are so many US-made Corollas and Camrys that routinely hit the 200-300K mark before they are scrapped or wrecked. I dunno about Honda or Nissan, but Toyota does make it a point to make their Japanese and US production almost seamless and each overseas plant has a Japanese sister plant they train at. Their plant in KY is the largest plant they have outside of Japan.


My Lexus is most certainly put together to a different standard than my Pilot and there's only a few thousand dollar price difference - both made in North America.

 

[pschnahc]

Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
All they have to do is stop using the 1.5T

There's nothing wrong with the 1.5T. Most TGDI engines have fuel dilution issues and they still live a long time.

Talk about denial.

 

[discountdon]

Originally Posted by The Critic
https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/hondas-hachigo-seizes-wheel-quality-crisis-hits-profits

Honda should've never canceled the Prelude, the Element... major blunders with 'localized' USA designed CrossTour

, that UGLY Acura 'BEAK' design language... how on earth did they get the oil diluting 1.5T into production without real world testing???

 

[jharrison]

A DI engine without an injector in front of the valvles is a defective design. You can make all the excuses in the world but that's a fact.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by jharrison
A DI engine without an injector in front of the valvles is a defective design. You can make all the excuses in the world but that's a fact.


DI is better under certain circumstances and worse under others. PI is better under certain circumstances and worse under others. Makes sense to combine the two technologies like Toyota's D4-S system.

 

[fdcg27]

We've owned Hondas for many years going back to our first, a '76 Civic 1500 that my wife bought new before I met her.
We've had ten of them since and while the Gen 8 Accord is not nearly as entertaining to drive as the Gen 6 Four door 5 spd we bought new, it's still a solid car that in its now 120K has needed no more than a battery, a set of tires and a set of brakes. Overall, it's been really cheap to own and use. The car remains free of rattles and the interior still looks good. The '18 Hybrid has delivered exceptional fuel economy and has plenty of grunt when you need or want to use it and has given no problems of any kind from new to its present 25K.
Hondas of today are not as entertaining to drive as were the cars of prior years. A Gen 7 Accord is far more enjoyable to drive than a Gen 8, for example.
Still, the build quality and reliability/durability still seem to be there, at least in my experience.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Quote
^ That is so true. Mazda is making sweet vehicle these days.
Motor Trend for one not enamored with the new Mazda 3 series and their move from independent rear suspension to torsion beam based. In fact because of that, MT has removed the 3 from what has been an automatic recommendation in the category.

As for topic, without commenting on article specifically, comments pretty much as expected. What I find curious, is FCA folks casting shade on Honda reliability. Now that's irony. But, unsurprising in my observation.



Those FCA folks are busy learning to pronounce Peugeot.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by gregk24
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Quote
^ That is so true. Mazda is making sweet vehicle these days.
Motor Trend for one not enamored with the new Mazda 3 series and their move from independent rear suspension to torsion beam based. In fact because of that, MT has removed the 3 from what has been an automatic recommendation in the category.

As for topic, without commenting on article specifically, comments pretty much as expected. What I find curious, is FCA folks casting shade on Honda reliability. Now that's irony. But, unsurprising in my observation.



Those FCA folks are busy learning to pronounce Peugeot.

FCA guy here.... is it "poo-zho"?