Recent Topics
Tungsten Ravenol
by V10 - 02/20/20 01:37 AM
Can an SSD make this much difference?
by 14Accent - 02/20/20 01:14 AM
The Big Oil Change - Sinclair Oil 1960's
by StevieC - 02/19/20 10:47 PM
A new topper for my truck
by HM12460 - 02/19/20 10:12 PM
AAP/Carquest platinum pads/rotors
by parshisa - 02/19/20 10:03 PM
Apple watch - high data usage
by Quattro Pete - 02/19/20 09:46 PM
Gas in the 80's vs Today
by alcyon - 02/19/20 09:34 PM
1993 Hilux 3.0 diesel
by Mayberryminitruc - 02/19/20 08:58 PM
WrightGrip 2.0 wrench set
by spasm3 - 02/19/20 08:57 PM
Don't forget about your clutch fluid
by Number_35 - 02/19/20 08:40 PM
Financial Advice
by cpayne5 - 02/19/20 08:28 PM
2003 Accord 6 Cylinder EX No start
by Gito - 02/19/20 08:03 PM
Oil Advice For 1990s Era Yamaha ATVs
by DockHoliday - 02/19/20 07:42 PM
2 quarts supertech 0w-20 for $4.56
by sjstangman - 02/19/20 07:35 PM
1994 Buick Century 63K miles
by MuzzleFlash40 - 02/19/20 07:33 PM
Why is this plug so expensive?
by motor_oil_madman - 02/19/20 07:01 PM
Mice and rat deterrent
by whizbyu - 02/19/20 06:45 PM
Gen Outlets Not Working
by coopns - 02/19/20 06:24 PM
Updated Motorcraft FL-2062-A
by advocate - 02/19/20 06:18 PM
Newest Members
Mayberryminitruc, DaiwaGuy, Gunboatmac, Mad_Max_Sam, 24Carat
70756 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
23 registered members (Black_Thunder, Compagnion, Darren_L, ctechbob, 4 invisible), 972 guests, and 18 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics301,684
Posts5,200,469
Members70,756
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 #5298018 12/18/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
S
soko Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
First post here. Got a brand new Yamaha R1 w/about 300 miles on it currently. Long story short, I suspected coolant mixing in the oil and decided to make sure after taking it to the dealer. This UOA probably won’t be that useful to anyone w/such little miles but I’m wondering if this is a good oil to use? Thinking about switching to Rotella T6 after as I can get a great deal on some. Thanks

Oil: Yamalube Full Syn 15w-50 w/ester
Oil Use Interval: 226 miles
[Linked Image]

Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5298032 12/18/19 01:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,404
K
KGMtech Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,404
What made you suspect coolant mixing with oil?


2017.5 Nissan Rogue SV FWD
2013 Nissan Maxima SV
2009 Ford Flex SEL FWD
1984 Yamaha XJ750RL
Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5298125 12/18/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,056
S
sunruh Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,056
i'm really confused

it says makeup oil added 4.3qt

is that the original or did you really add in 4.3quarts of oil in these 226miles?

if its really zero, its a very good report.
if its really 4.3qts the report is worthless

and you need to rev it more.
blast to almost redline and then decel (motor only) back down no brakes


motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: KGMtech] #5298290 12/18/19 04:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
S
soko Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by KGMtech
What made you suspect coolant mixing with oil?


I dumped the oil at 44 miles and the oil looked somewhat milky. A friend of mine who is a Car Mechanic took a look and said it’s coolant contamination. There is more to it than that but that’s the short version. Bike is running fine..always has just wanted the peace of mind.

Last edited by soko; 12/18/19 05:01 PM.
Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: sunruh] #5298294 12/18/19 05:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
S
soko Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by sunruh
i'm really confused

it says makeup oil added 4.3qt

is that the original or did you really add in 4.3quarts of oil in these 226miles?

if its really zero, its a very good report.
if its really 4.3qts the report is worthless

and you need to rev it more.
blast to almost redline and then decel (motor only) back down no brakes



Ignore the make up oil. This was my first oil analysis so I’m sure I misunderstood that part. This oil is not the original oil, I did the 1st oil change at around 44 miles. Only reason for this analysis was to confirm there was no coolant contamination in the oil.

Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I’m no oil expert but I’ve read on here that can be a sign of a “real” synthetic oil?

Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5298327 12/18/19 05:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,517
K
kschachn Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,517
Originally Posted by soko
Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I’m no oil expert but I’ve read on here that can be a sign of a “real” synthetic oil?

There is nothing in that report that would indicate base stock composition.


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 430K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: kschachn] #5298498 12/18/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
B
Bonz Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
That is just poor zinc and phosphorus. And calcium as a detergent is extremely low considering there's no magnesium. However that's a huge dose of a boron, I think boron is a very good extreme pressure additive, that may well take the place of zinc and even be more efficient per PPM.

Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: Bonz] #5299144 12/19/19 03:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
S
soko Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Bonz
That is just poor zinc and phosphorus. And calcium as a detergent is extremely low considering there's no magnesium. However that's a huge dose of a boron, I think boron is a very good extreme pressure additive, that may well take the place of zinc and even be more efficient per PPM.


Thank you for your analysis, exactly the type of info I was looking for.

Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5299366 12/19/19 07:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
B
Bonz Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
You may just want to run it and see what you get on a longer oil change interval. I have a buddy who ran that in his FJR 1300, did fine for him although he didn't do an analysis. He's running Mobil 1 10w 40 4T now. Seems to be the thing amongst FJR guys, so he's following suit. I really like M1 4T in my ZRX 1200.

Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5300534 12/21/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,695
A
alarmguy Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,695
I would stick with a 50, why go down to a 40?
Maybe if you lived way up north but Atlanta isnt the coldest place in the country (more so in the summer) and if Yamaha allows a 50 I am sure you will be much better off, including shifting on those hot summer days when your oil is nice and hot.

Living in the Southeast I always chose to go to a 50 if the manual stated I could. Just works better, shifting included.
Its all good, we all (including me) tend to over think oil, just in this case, your thinking about running an oil weight that is good for someone way up north and getting some thoughts from people who live up there but you live in one of the most southern areas of the USA with temperatures much higher.

Just my thoughts, no big deal, but many people wont understand what summertime "hot" is unless they lived in our areas.

Either way, your bike engine will outlast the bike no matter what you use.
If you want something more robust (not that it matters) and want to stay with a 15w50. There is Mystic JT 8 15/50 semi syn diesel oil or Mobile 1 15/50 oil or any number of motorcycle specific oils.

Ps, no offense but I would stay away from advice from your friend, there was no reason to change out the oil. Once the engine was run at full operating temperature for a while the moisture in the engine oil would have evaporated.

Last edited by alarmguy; 12/21/19 08:01 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5302512 12/23/19 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,148
BusyLittleShop Offline
Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by soko

Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I’m no oil expert but I’ve read on here that can be a sign of a “real” synthetic oil?


To make a informed decision like an expert you have to understand that
additives like Zinc and Phosphorous are used/sacrificed in very small
quantities over time, so the total amount present in your oil does NOT
change how much wear protection the oil provides, as long as you don’t
run out of additives “Lab Testing” and “Wear Testing” analysis
proves/confirms that more additives provides LONGER wear protection,
NOT MORE wear protection...

Just follow the oil change interval tested and approved by Yamaha's engineers
and your prized R1 should meet and exceed your mileage expectations...

Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 12/23/19 02:54 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: alarmguy] #5302534 12/23/19 03:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,148
BusyLittleShop Offline
Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by alarmguy
I would stick with a 50, why go down to a 40?


I know the answer... first of all Yamaha's engineers approve grades
15w50 or 10w40 full synthetic to reach our mileage expectations but
only a full synthetic 40 grade will lower our operating temp because
it flows with less drag than a 50 grade... oil drag is visibly real...

The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs

The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil’s ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn’t sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don’t find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 12/23/19 03:26 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5303439 12/24/19 02:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
B
Bonz Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by soko

Anyone see any concerns with the low Zinc and Phosphorus levels in this oil? I’m no oil expert but I’ve read on here that can be a sign of a “real” synthetic oil?


To make a informed decision like an expert you have to understand that
additives like Zinc and Phosphorous are used/sacrificed in very small
quantities over time, so the total amount present in your oil does NOT
change how much wear protection the oil provides, as long as you don’t
run out of additives “Lab Testing” and “Wear Testing” analysis
proves/confirms that more additives provides LONGER wear protection,
NOT MORE wear protection...

Just follow the oil change interval tested and approved by Yamaha's engineers
and your prized R1 should meet and exceed your mileage expectations...



I need help understanding, as an example, how 600 PPM zinc will provide the exact same wear protection as 1800 PPM zinc in let's say the first 100 miles of use since it's probably safe to say it will not have been sacrificed. A higher concentration means more of it on any given area of contact versus a lesser concentration. Because zinc is a last line of defense when everything else has failed, I don't believe we would see zinc depleted in a motor oil if that engine is still mechanically able to function and is running. I've seen oil analysis with a TBN showing it's used up and the zinc was nominally where it was rated to be in the same oil when new.

That's seems to be saying the flat tappet engine valve train that gets chewed up has nothing to do with the oil it was provided. If everything else was equal except the concentration of zinc, based on what you are saying, it should survive the initial startup and the first few miles of running and continue happily down the road with the explicit condition that the zinc was not depleted within that period of time.


Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: Bonz] #5305552 12/27/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,148
BusyLittleShop Offline
Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by Bonz

I need help understanding, as an example, how 600 PPM zinc will provide the exact same wear protection as 1800 PPM zinc in let's say the first 100 miles of use since it's probably safe to say it will not have been sacrificed. that period of time.


We all could use help understanding Zinc... because zinc is not even
a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is only used when there
is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. At that point zinc must react
with the heat and load to create the sacrificial film that allows it to protect
flat-tappet camshafts and other highly loaded engine parts. So its possible
at normal street speeds you may never have to use Zinc protection...

The consensus among the experts warns of too much Zinc not less Zinc...

1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard,
whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing,
has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc
does NOT provide today’s best wear protection, and that using zinc as
the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.

2. The GM Oil Report titled, “Oil Myths from GM Techlink”, concluded
that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT
provide more wear protection.

3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, “More
than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil”, concluded that more
zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer
wear protection.

4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company: There is such a thing as too
much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a
detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive
performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will
“tie-up” detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP
effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection.
Only so much is utilized. We don’t need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.

5 Blackstone Labs Motorcycle data...
A cold start is a normal operating condition... your RPMs and
energy are not high enough to activate the zinc additive... zinc
can only react with a metal surface when the reaction energy
(temperature) is high enough like during red line racing

Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 12/27/19 01:46 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: New 18’ YZF-R1 and Yamalube 15w-50 [Re: soko] #5305696 12/27/19 04:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
B
Bonz Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 401
I agree about excessive zinc. approved

As Brad Penn said in your information above they don't over saturate with zinc.

With further searching, I found that even though Brad Penn upped zinc levels in 2008 to 1500 PPM, they only did it because the market valued it ( i.e. customer perception). There was no performance data that helped drive that decision.

With that said, what would have saved the flat tappet engines that were the horror stories decades ago because they were convinced lower zinc levels caused the problems? I would suspect those engines were started up fresh but at ambient temperature and under a light load so zinc would not come into play.

Is it possible with high spring tension and aggressive lobes that zinc would come into play almost instantly at start up with pressure causing the heat for zinc to react and provide the barrier until things were broken in and surfaces mated with each other?

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™