Mercedes delays EV release

[KevD47]

I remember another Apple parallel in history. They're only in existence because of a totally new development in the iPod and ultimately the iPhone. They were all but dead in the computer industry due to closed infrastructure and OS vs PC/DOS. Maybe Tesla is banking on an iPhone development 25 years from now. Should Tesla keep their infrastructure closed for the Supercharger and other infrastructure that enables expansion of their available market?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
TSLA is at $380 today...

It's called growth mode people... Opening Gigafactories ain't cheap.
Charging infrastructure... Who else has one?
New vehicles...

Not sure who the business people here are.
Perhaps you remember 15 to 20 years ago when Apple was supposed to be belly up within a short time?

All good.


Yeah, Microsoft bailed them out. Partly out of anti-trust concerns.

Lots of huge companies eventually implode. Montgomery Ward, Wang Compaq, Kodak, Polaroid, Enron, Worldcom, Arthur Andersen, Lehman Brothers, Theranos, Thomas Cook, Pan Am, Toys R Us, etc.

We are probably going to start watching Uber, Wework eventually implode but maybe they'll be able to pull out at some point. Remember how Groupon and Boston Market was a hot stock at one point? Still around but not what they used to be.

I think at some point Tesla will plateau just like Microsoft did and either the stock will crater when it's mature or nothing much will happen for several years.

And oh yeah stock market at a new high again. Happy days are here again....

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by KevD47
Should Tesla keep their infrastructure closed for the Supercharger and other infrastructure that enables expansion of their available market?

As you may know, Tesla vehicles are very software based. Must has made much of that software open source and promises to release more.
He has also offered manufactures use of the Tesla Superchargers, but they would have to share in the cost to build and operate them.

 

[KevD47]

Infrastructure includes a mechanical piece, connectors, speed, and such, parallel to phone charging stations in airports. The olive branch and relations with competitors are key here to collectively make us more comfortable with range and other concerns of emergency situations. I fill my car in 3-4 minutes with gas, don't give me an excuse to not buy because I can't take my family on vacation to the beach without stopping at least twice for an hour or more. I couldn't care less how much it saves me in gas when common practical issues are apparent. I'm not an early adopter, either, to be fair.

 

[Wolf359]

There also tend to be trendy things, the Yugo and Hyundai Excel were pretty popular when they first came out and then sales plunged. Prius was also pretty popular when it first came out, but then sales have plateau and I think have been dropping lately.

Although I like luxury cars, one reason I'm not interested in a Tesla is that it's not considered a DIY friendly car.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by Ws6
Lol, Tesla. I cant wait for them to finally go out of business or be bought out by someone who can run a company.


Yes I know what you mean brother. I would prefer a Japanese company take over because they are known to be ethically superior run companies. My second pick would be Koreans.

Can't root for a success of an American company, no sir!

I don't buy or support products based on country of origin. I buy and support products based on quality. To do otherwise is to encourage failure. I want a STRONG American company. Not a well supported manufacturer of junk.

Also...who's to say an American won't buy Tesla out and make them a great American company?

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by pschnahc
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl



Is Tesla profitable?..... NO.

Has Tesla been able to string together two or more profitable quarters?...Yes. Once and that happened this year.

Are they growing? Yes. Are competitors not growing? No. They're growing as well just not as fast on a per percentage basis because their volumes are either so high or their product is priced higher.




Good point. Would Tesla be anywhere near the success they are today without the carbon scheme, future-fetishing consumers, a monopolized market, politically-motivated legislated attacks on hydrocarbon energy and subsidies from every side? Surely they're not going broke on interior/exterior design or materials quality


How do you define "success"? They are losing money hand over fist every year.

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by pschnahc
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl



Is Tesla profitable?..... NO.

Has Tesla been able to string together two or more profitable quarters?...Yes. Once and that happened this year.

Are they growing? Yes. Are competitors not growing? No. They're growing as well just not as fast on a per percentage basis because their volumes are either so high or their product is priced higher.




Good point. Would Tesla be anywhere near the success they are today without the carbon scheme, future-fetishing consumers, a monopolized market, politically-motivated legislated attacks on hydrocarbon energy and subsidies from every side? Surely they're not going broke on interior/exterior design or materials quality


How do you define "success"? They are losing money hand over fist every year.


Amazons "Prime" looses money hand over fist but their backbone server architecture makes them government money hand over fist.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by pschnahc
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl



Is Tesla profitable?..... NO.

Has Tesla been able to string together two or more profitable quarters?...Yes. Once and that happened this year.

Are they growing? Yes. Are competitors not growing? No. They're growing as well just not as fast on a per percentage basis because their volumes are either so high or their product is priced higher.




Good point. Would Tesla be anywhere near the success they are today without the carbon scheme, future-fetishing consumers, a monopolized market, politically-motivated legislated attacks on hydrocarbon energy and subsidies from every side? Surely they're not going broke on interior/exterior design or materials quality


How do you define "success"? They are losing money hand over fist every year.


Amazons "Prime" looses money hand over fist but their backbone server architecture makes them government money hand over fist.



Cool. Care to explain how this looks "successful"?
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/financial-statements

 

[SeaJay]

A large chunk of the Teslas sold to date were purchased by fanboys and fangals who are less worried about having a perfect vehicle and more worried about getting on the EV bandwagon.

I suspect that Mercedes realizes going forward it will be selling to more discerning customers, many of whom are used to the top quality that Mercedes is known for and not so willing to accept imperfections just to be able to own any EV. Seems like a smart business decision to me.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by SeaJay
A large chunk of the Teslas sold to date were purchased by fanboys and fangals who are less worried about having a perfect vehicle and more worried about getting on the EV bandwagon.

I suspect that Mercedes realizes going forward it will be selling to more discerning customers, many of whom are used to the top quality that Mercedes is known for and not so willing to accept imperfections just to be able to own any EV. Seems like a smart business decision to me.

I agree. One of my friends has just ordered the new Tesla truck. Has a $5M house and is a financial advisor. Having the latest and greatest crap is part of his image...part of his business...makes him more than it costs him. He bought his S because he likes the acceleration electric provides.

As others who can build a good car, build good EV's, Tesla sales will plummet.

 

[Astro14]

While the Tesla is cool, and I am excited by the improvements in technology, it's not a very good car.

The ride is clunky, interior room poor, materials cheap and a road trip requires logistics planning, much more time, and you're dependent on sparse infrastructure.

For the same price as a Model S, you can get an S class Mercedes which has none of the above limitations.

The Amazon/Tesla comparison is silly. Amazon makes a LOT of money after taxes, across a portfolio of businesses. Tesla has one business, which loses money, before taxes, even with government subsidy through carbon offsets.

 

[pschnahc]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by KevD47
Should Tesla keep their infrastructure closed for the Supercharger and other infrastructure that enables expansion of their available market?

As you may know, Tesla vehicles are very software based. Must has made much of that software open source and promises to release more.
He has also offered manufactures use of the Tesla Superchargers, but they would have to share in the cost to build and operate them.

It's all careful PR, but behind it is straight business. Open sourcing the patents prevents patent trolls from suing Tesla and/or impeding Tesla's use of their own technology through lengthy litigation. Musk knows no one is going to be able to use his proprietary tech without $Billions of prior infrastructure, and if someone even tried, it would be obsolete by then. Open sourcing also prevents former/ employees from profiting off the sale of patents to competitors. Would be curious to see if any competitors are actually using Musks patents and which ones

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by pschnahc
It's all careful PR, but behind it is straight business. Open sourcing the patents prevents patent trolls from suing Tesla and/or impeding Tesla's use of their own technology through lengthy litigation. Musk knows no one is going to be able to use his proprietary tech without $Billions of prior infrastructure, and if someone even tried, it would be obsolete by then. Open sourcing also prevents former/ employees from profiting off the sale of patents to competitors. Would be curious to see if any competitors are actually using Musks patents and which ones

Which ones.... You're leaving us hanging here, Ben.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6

As others who can build a good car, build good EV's, Tesla sales will plummet.


...and when will this actually happen?

People have been saying this since the Model S was introduced in 2012.



UD

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

As others who can build a good car, build good EV's, Tesla sales will plummet.


...and when will this actually happen?

People have been saying this since the Model S was introduced in 2012.



UD








Tesla reported a month or so ago that their sales growth occurred in the leasing segment. High residual values are needed in order to sustain a "lease first" sales cycle. I'd guess in the next 3-4 yrs we'll see what happens as these vehicles come off lease and compete for new sales. Tesla models which have not had a complete refresh may be priced out or Tesla will get stuck with inventory that must be sold at a steep discount.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

As others who can build a good car, build good EV's, Tesla sales will plummet.


...and when will this actually happen?

People have been saying this since the Model S was introduced in 2012.



UD






Tesla is sustained via tax dollars and Musk's other ventures and a hope and a prayer. If Tesla were a stand alone venture, it would have died a long time ago. I'm just waiting for someone to buy it who will clean it up and give us some good vehicles from it's tech.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Tesla reported a month or so ago that their sales growth occurred in the leasing segment. High residual values are needed in order to sustain a "lease first" sales cycle. I'd guess in the next 3-4 yrs we'll see what happens as these vehicles come off lease and compete for new sales. Tesla models which have not had a complete refresh may be priced out or Tesla will get stuck with inventory that must be sold at a steep discount.

There is no option to purchase a Model 3 after lease completion.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Ws6

Tesla is sustained via tax dollars and Musk's other ventures and a hope and a prayer. If Tesla were a stand alone venture, it would have died a long time ago. I'm just waiting for someone to buy it who will clean it up and give us some good vehicles from it's tech.

The tax credit was $3,750 for the 1st 6 months of 2019 and $1,875 until the end of the year.
Then they are up.
Thr $7,500 tax credit ended last year, which is when we bought our car.
And this assumes one can benefit from the tax credit; you have to itemize.

What other ventures support Tesla? I have not seen those numbers in any statements.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ws6

As others who can build a good car, build good EV's, Tesla sales will plummet.


...and when will this actually happen?

People have been saying this since the Model S was introduced in 2012.



UD






Tesla is sustained via tax dollars and Musk's other ventures and a hope and a prayer. If Tesla were a stand alone venture, it would have died a long time ago. I'm just waiting for someone to buy it who will clean it up and give us some good vehicles from it's tech.




Show us a breakdown to support that statement.

Who do you think might buy it now that it's worth more than every US auto manufacturer?

UD