Motul LL04 specs, HTHS and Viscosity at 100°C (212°F)

Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Messages
64
Location
Norway
Hi,
I`m a Norwegian guy just that found this forum, there is a lot to learn in here, great place
I drive a Bmw 750IX 2013. This got a twinturbo V8 with the turboes inside the "V" and they run quite hot. Its been running on the Bmw twinpower turbo gold 0w30 LL04 oil so far. This is a "high" 30 grade with a Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) of 12.5, dont know HTHS but its C3 so at least 3.5 mPa.s

Alot of people on the N63 facebook group recommend to step up to a 5w40 oil on these engines for better protection so thats what i plan to do. OCI is 5k miles so i dont care about Longlife properties or fuel efficiency just wont whats protect the engine the best.

I have bought Liqui Moly top tec 4100 for the next two OC, this was recommended for this engine by the Liqui Moly support. It has Viscosity at 100 °C (212°F) 14,3 mm²/s and HTHS is at least 3.5 mPa.s, its C3. Maybe I'll stick to this oil in the future but i also had a look at some Motul oils and here is my question:

Motul has 3 different oils 5w40 with LL04 approval, they are all C3 but they have some small differences, so i wonder what is the most important properties to look after for best engine protection.
It is mainly the properties of hot oil I wonder because it is not very cold here I live and I drive the car very nicely until the oil has reached operating temperature.

Liqui Moly top tec 4100
API: SN (C3)
100°C (212°F) 14.3 mm²/s
HTHS unknown, equal or higher then 3.5 mPa.s
TBN 7.5 mg

Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40
Api: SN/CF (C3)
100°C (212°F) 14.1 mm²/s
HTHS 3.6 mPa.s
TBN 7.5 mg

Motul 8100 X-clean gen2
Api: SN (C3)
100°C (212°F) 13.5 mm²/s
HTHS 3.9 mPa.s
TBN 8.0 mg

Motul SPECIFIC LL-04
API: SN/CF (C3)
100°C (212°F) 13.9 mm²/s
HTHS 3.7 mPa.s
TBN 7.4 mg



Thanx
 
If they are all LL04 or meet the specified BMW spec, then #3 looks good. Higher tbn and hths ... but I ain't no expert
grin2.gif
however if I make up my mind, I typically ignore the experts angways.
shocked2.gif

What are the Noack numbers? If #3 has the lowest, I'll pick #3.
Don't BMW's like moly or is that a Japanese thing? I would consider that as well if it was my car.
Also I could be wrong but if the name has moly, it doesn't mean anything (i.e. it has lots of moly). I think I read that somewhere on this site. Don't trust the name & verify!
 
Personally for your climate I would stay with the 0w30 BMW Twinturbo LL04. That being said if you insist on using a 5w40 then I would choose Motul 8100 X-clean gen2 because of the other OE certs (Mercedes Benz 229.52, Porsche C40, VW 511.00). If not then Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 because it has Mercedes Benz 229.51 and Porsche A40.


In the United States BMW is using BMW TwinTurbo 0w30 (LL01FE) which has a HTHS of 3.0 for the N63.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Personally for your climate I would stay with the 0w30 BMW Twinturbo LL04. That being said if you insist on using a 5w40 then I would choose Motul 8100 X-clean gen2 because of the other OE certs (Mercedes Benz 229.52, Porsche C40, VW 511.00). If not then Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 because it has Mercedes Benz 229.51 and Porsche A40.


In the United States BMW is using BMW TwinTurbo 0w30 (LL01FE) which has a HTHS of 3.0 for the N63.


Thanks for your reply, i`m at a N63 group on Facebook and there are some tuners there, there recommend to step up to 5w40 on these engines when they are tuned, there have been some spunned bearings on the early generation of these engines. I have the facelift N63TU. Dont know if the bearings has anything to do with oil viscocity/HTHS but i think i will have the strongest possible oilfilm prior to Fuel effency. When that said these engines should have LL04 C3 oil here in Norway. The gasoline is washed clean for sulfur here. These engines runs hot with 2 turbos inside the "V". The coolant is approx 220°F and the oil about the same when crusing. The tend to burn some oil with the 0w30 and even thou Bmw says its ok to burn some because its an performance engine they tend to stop doing that or at least slowing down with the 5w40 oil.
 
Originally Posted by STIcandy
I'm not familiar with bmw. Is that a DI engine?


Hi
Yes it is.
 
Welcome to the forum. Is there any type of N63 client care package/extended warranty for those motors in your country? Im wondering if you experience the same issues that most owners over here do. As for oil choices, if there is some warranty, especially since valve stem seals are an issue, perhaps stick with the OE formula? Otherwise, #3 like others have said, although any of the choices for that interval would work very well.
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
If they are all LL04 or meet the specified BMW spec, then #3 looks good. Higher tbn and hths ... but I ain't no expert
grin2.gif
however if I make up my mind, I typically ignore the experts angways.
shocked2.gif

What are the Noack numbers? If #3 has the lowest, I'll pick #3.
Don't BMW's like moly or is that a Japanese thing? I would consider that as well if it was my car.
Also I could be wrong but if the name has moly, it doesn't mean anything (i.e. it has lots of moly). I think I read that somewhere on this site. Don't trust the name & verify!


Hi,
I dont know the Noack numbers, Bmw like Liqui Moly in Germany at least, Its a German brand oil with a very good reputation
 
Originally Posted by Audios
Welcome to the forum. Is there any type of N63 client care package/extended warranty for those motors in your country? Im wondering if you experience the same issues that most owners over here do. As for oil choices, if there is some warranty, especially since valve stem seals are an issue, perhaps stick with the OE formula? Otherwise, #3 like others have said, although any of the choices for that interval would work very well.


Thank you.

There is not any CCP here in Norway, think its just the US. I have the N63TU that came late 2012 in the F01, 7 series and i think 2014 in the F10 5 series.. It was a huge upgrade and its really not the same engine. It has a good reputation with not much problems like the first generation N63 from 2009 . I have driven mine from 47k miles til now with 85k miles and there have been no problems. I have replaced the coolant hoses for turboes, the CCV hoses and 8 coils as a preventive maintenance
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here is Motul 8100 X Clean sold in North America. It's also rated as Dexos 2.


Thanx i have been looking at this now, it has solid numbers on HTHS and a little higher viscocity at 200°F/100°C, than the 0w30 Bmw oem oil 13.5mm²/s vs 12.5 mm²/s.

Is Dexos 2 approval a "quality" sign?
 
Originally Posted by 750IX
Is Dexos 2 approval a "quality" sign?

Sure, but a far more significant one for your vehicle is the one listed as "LL-04."
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Personally for your climate I would stay with the 0w30 BMW Twinturbo LL04.


In the United States BMW is using BMW TwinTurbo 0w30 (LL01FE) which has a HTHS of 3.0 for the N63.


BMW Twinturbo oil is basically Shell helix ultra...
https://go.shell.com/35u7rWB

Look at "other recommendations"...it shows OEM 5w40 oil also...

I would choose Shell...since its GTL based...and OP worries about its turbos...
 
Originally Posted by 750IX
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Personally for your climate I would stay with the 0w30 BMW Twinturbo LL04. That being said if you insist on using a 5w40 then I would choose Motul 8100 X-clean gen2 because of the other OE certs (Mercedes Benz 229.52, Porsche C40, VW 511.00). If not then Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 because it has Mercedes Benz 229.51 and Porsche A40.


In the United States BMW is using BMW TwinTurbo 0w30 (LL01FE) which has a HTHS of 3.0 for the N63.


Thanks for your reply, i`m at a N63 group on Facebook and there are some tuners there, there recommend to step up to 5w40 on these engines when they are tuned, there have been some spunned bearings on the early generation of these engines. I have the facelift N63TU. Dont know if the bearings has anything to do with oil viscocity/HTHS but i think i will have the strongest possible oilfilm prior to Fuel effency. When that said these engines should have LL04 C3 oil here in Norway. The gasoline is washed clean for sulfur here. These engines runs hot with 2 turbos inside the "V". The coolant is approx 220°F and the oil about the same when crusing. The tend to burn some oil with the 0w30 and even thou Bmw says its ok to burn some because its an performance engine they tend to stop doing that or at least slowing down with the 5w40 oil.



In the US the inside-V turbo setup is jokingly called "The Valley of Death" because of the heat. Also my understanding is that the oil feed lines for the turbos have undergone multiple revisions as well. I can see running a 5w40 on a tuned version I just don't know your duty cycle (driving habits, include lots of highway or short urban trips) especially during winter months.

Good Luck!
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by 750IX
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Personally for your climate I would stay with the 0w30 BMW Twinturbo LL04. That being said if you insist on using a 5w40 then I would choose Motul 8100 X-clean gen2 because of the other OE certs (Mercedes Benz 229.52, Porsche C40, VW 511.00). If not then Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 because it has Mercedes Benz 229.51 and Porsche A40.


In the United States BMW is using BMW TwinTurbo 0w30 (LL01FE) which has a HTHS of 3.0 for the N63.


Thanks for your reply, i`m at a N63 group on Facebook and there are some tuners there, there recommend to step up to 5w40 on these engines when they are tuned, there have been some spunned bearings on the early generation of these engines. I have the facelift N63TU. Dont know if the bearings has anything to do with oil viscocity/HTHS but i think i will have the strongest possible oilfilm prior to Fuel effency. When that said these engines should have LL04 C3 oil here in Norway. The gasoline is washed clean for sulfur here. These engines runs hot with 2 turbos inside the "V". The coolant is approx 220°F and the oil about the same when crusing. The tend to burn some oil with the 0w30 and even thou Bmw says its ok to burn some because its an performance engine they tend to stop doing that or at least slowing down with the 5w40 oil.



In the US the inside-V turbo setup is jokingly called "The Valley of Death" because of the heat. Also my understanding is that the oil feed lines for the turbos have undergone multiple revisions as well. I can see running a 5w40 on a tuned version I just don't know your duty cycle (driving habits, include lots of highway or short urban trips) especially during winter months.

Good Luck!


Thanks
I drive mostly little longer trips on highway, not much start/stop or urban trips. Temperature is mostly higher than 32°F during the winter.

Yes thats true, the CCV came in an upgraded version more like a rubber stuff instead of plastic in the first version to handle the heat, the oil return lines from turbos have been clogged up at some of the early engines, thats one reason to operate with 5k miles OIC and have a healthy CCV system. I have replaced the coolant hoses to both turboes, they have "T" in plastic that give up after 4-5 years. I have replaced the "T" with brass.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
 
If I have this engine and it is out of warranty I would use Motul Sport 5W40 , just watch of the date stamp to be within two years from
manufacturing.
 
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