My Forester CVT blew up

[Cujet]

I rented a Subaru Crosstrek from Avis. It had under 2000 miles on it when I rented it, and 2400 when the CVT failed. I was going up a long highway grade and the RPM just started climbing trying to maintain speed. Eventually, it started slipping and would not go anymore. I shut it off, restarted, rolled down the hill and into a gas station.

The number of CVT failures is nothing short of staggering. My suggestion is simple, extended warranty for the duration of ownership. Sell before the warranty expires. The chances are very high that it WILL happen to you.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by Chris142
I looked this up just for fun. The Price on the new trans is $6118! Throw in some labor,fluids,coolers,core charge and $11K it is.


So 50 hours labour to r&r a longitudinal trans.

That's really sad.. My shop used to get jobs from places that charge like that.

And we did better work.

 

[JTK]

Oh man that sucks! I know it's not helping the situation, but a fella on another board I frequent was quoted ~$11K for a CVT replacement on his 2013 Nissan Pathfinder with 90K miles on it. The repair quote he posted didn't make much sense though. Like it was the "We don't want to do the job" price from that particular Nissan store.

Even though I've owned a bunch of them now- Subaru and Nissan, I don't know what to say about CVTs other than it doesn't matter what type of transmission your vehicle has, they ALL tend to be the first major component to fail and when they do, the repair cost is often close to the value of the vehicle.

Subaru started with their current style CVT in 2010 with the Legacy and they seemed to have made changes to them every 1-2yrs since. Is that a good or bad thing? Who knows. What I have gathered over the years is, when a Subaru CVT fails, they seem to do so catastrophically and with little/no warning. Nissan/Jatco units tend to make noise or shudder for some time and may or may not set a code. I've read where some people 'solved their issues' by only changing fluid at that point, but I'm sure it's only a temporary fix.

It would be interesting to know what the cause of the failure was on this Subaru unit. For Nissan/Jatco units, the problem for YEARS was the pressure control (relief) valve. The valve piston would score over time because of the materials it was made of and stick open causing fluid pressure loss. Fluid pressure loss causes belt slack. Belt slack eventually causes heat and metallic shavings and the problem escalates until the point of failure.

 

[Bjornviken]

Originally Posted by benjy
#! DONT buy a CVT equipped vehicle!!! Mr Subaru youtube states he contacted subie top dogs + they said NO fluid changes in the extended warranty trannys, BUT they note about severe service???? you are the BETA tester + subaru corporate wants your UNOPENED tranny complete in case of failure to diagnose it, so either DUMP that piece of crap before 100 thou or NEVER buy one in the first place!! guessing as these age + failures occur they will have POOR resale value!!!


Subaru recommends to change fluid every 60k km

 

[edyvw]

That is what happens when only way to meet CAFE is going CVT route.

 

[IMPALA08]

I was surprised too when the service advisor called with the $11k price, my son was thinking maybe the diff is being change....don't know yet. I may get the car back in 1 to 2 weeks. I am definitely planing to replace it with another suv just not one with a cvt tranny.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
My CVT was probably a ways from failing spectacularly when I took it in...the only issue I noticed was that it seemed hesitant to move in reverse. Then the car threw a CEL and I shuddered when I saw the codes were transmission related (thank you Torque), but I drove it maybe 30 miles to the dealer with no issues.
I know that I didn't get a new unit, don't remember what was replaced inside the CVT but I'm sure I have the paperwork somewhere.
I (stupidly) didn't think to ask about the CVT fluid until after I picked the car up, and the SA told me "it was as green going in as the old fluid was coming out".
I said "the high torque CVT fluid is orange."
15 minutes later, a mechanic called me and said "bring your car back in as soon as you possibly can."

The dealership ignorance is strong here.



And this kind of gross negligence happens at $tealerships ALL. THE. TIME!
There is NO excuse for a Subaru dealership not taking the extra minute or two to make sure they know the correct CVT fluid is being used in one of their own vehicles.

DISGRACEFUL...OP never blame yourself for their gross negligence whether the car is rare or not, it is a newer Subaru and the shop has NO excuse for their error.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by IMPALA08
I am definitely planing to replace it with another suv just not one with a cvt tranny.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Jimzz
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Jimzz
Unless the fluid was low then it was not a fluid issue, just bad luck and/or over used CVT.

How do you overuse a CVT? Constant on/of throttle application, so that it runs up/down constantly?

Changing speeds dramatically a lot and/or carrying a lot of weight.

CVTs seem fine if you are a regular right lane driver that goes from A to B. But heavy loads and/or aggressive driving puts more wear on them. I am sure AWD systems add even more stress to them as well.
So I am watching to see how they hold up in subarus. Right now long life is not looking good. Not Nissan bad but I don't see as many hitting 200k with little to no issues.



Interesting... I drive my Nissan Altima VQ CVT hard quite a good amount actually.... With now 290,500 miles... Though I agree with you about the AWD may not be helpful to a CVT.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Chris142
I'm sure that includes a brand new trans since even his case is not usable,a core charge,any coolers in the system including the radiator as it has a trans cooler built into it,labor etc. $11k sounds about right.

No shops around here will rebuilt a cvt. They source brand new from the dealer.

Oh I'm sure it does include a brand new unit, coolers, etc. I'm talking about a CVT being 11 grand when a new ZF from BMW installed at a dealer is probably a similar price. I know someone who had their transmission replaced in a newer Durango at the dealership. The total bill was somewhere around 8,000.


Off topic, but I have a problem and can't help myself.... What year Durango?

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
No, let's concentrate on proper transmissions not glorified rubber band model airplane concept of power transfer.

I hear this rubber band thing all the time and never get a rubber band feeling from my FXT...it's a much more capable transmission than the 5 speed in my RAV6 was, and it made it a whole 20kmiles longer than that one before failing!
;^)
Like Cormac McCarthy wrote in No Country For Old Men, you can't stop what's coming...CVTs make a lot of sense and they will become more reliable over time, just like any other innovation.


The Dodge Caliber, the only CVT equipped vehicle I have any real experience with, was very "rubber bandy" feeling. The 2018 Altima I had as a rental felt like a normal geared transmission for the most part. I actually preferred the way the Caliber was, very very smooth. Normal acceleration meant it revved to 3,000rpm for a second then it settled down to 2500 and would sit there till you hit cruising speed. If the Nissan behaved liked that, it would have been a perfect work car.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by AC1DD

And this kind of gross negligence happens at $tealerships ALL. THE. TIME!
There is NO excuse for a Subaru dealership not taking the extra minute or two to make sure they know the correct CVT fluid is being used in one of their own vehicles.
DISGRACEFUL...OP never blame yourself for their gross negligence whether the car is rare or not, it is a newer Subaru and the shop has NO excuse for their error.

Oh, the dealers have to know what is going on with the vehicles they sell (at the very least), I agree...I referred to myself as stupid as I had the question about the fluid used all ready to go when I went to pick my car up and plumb forgot it in the flurry of exchanging keys, signing paperwork, etc. I finally remembered when I got back home and then had to make the return trip for the correct fluid.

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by Jimzz
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Jimzz
Unless the fluid was low then it was not a fluid issue, just bad luck and/or over used CVT.

How do you overuse a CVT? Constant on/of throttle application, so that it runs up/down constantly?

Changing speeds dramatically a lot and/or carrying a lot of weight.

CVTs seem fine if you are a regular right lane driver that goes from A to B. But heavy loads and/or aggressive driving puts more wear on them. I am sure AWD systems add even more stress to them as well.
So I am watching to see how they hold up in subarus. Right now long life is not looking good. Not Nissan bad but I don't see as many hitting 200k with little to no issues.



Interesting... I drive my Nissan Altima VQ CVT hard quite a good amount actually.... With now 290,500 miles... Though I agree with you about the AWD may not be helpful to a CVT.



Yea the V6 Nissan don;t have as many issues with the CVTs as the 4cyls do. Not sure if its all in a more beefy CVT in the V6s and/or the V6s don'r rev/move around as much as the 4cyls.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Not rubber bandy -- Tromboney!

Abviously some non engineer layperson came up with this on a forum a decade ago.

And it lingers.

The CVT? It's not geared! It should run at the lower torque peak at a steady RPM and vary the pulley ratio to increase vehicle speed.

When it see no throttle command for acceleation, TCU will vary the pulley ratio AGAIN to run an O.D. mode at lowest speed with no pinging. usually 1200 rpm.

But people didn't like the way they feel so they changed to programming to step through ratios like a planetary 6 speed.

General population = Morons. Dealer education = Almost NONE.

I understand the changes. but less efficient.

Do I like CVT ?

Not really. Too much belt wear and friction-drive heat loss and hyd pump loss to maintain pulley position.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Jimzz

Yea the V6 Nissan don;t have as many issues with the CVTs as the 4cyls do. Not sure if its all in a more beefy CVT in the V6s and/or the V6s don'r rev/move around as much as the 4cyls.


My take on that is two parts. #1 is the CVTs coupled to the V6s are indeed built to handle more torque and stresses involved with that. #2 is there's probably 3x the 4cyl CVT combos out there than there are V6s, thus the higher number of failures.

Either way, lots of transmissions these days barf out their guts before their powertrain warranties expire (thankfully). I don't see this phenomena stopping any time soon given the lightweight, complex and cost cutting nature of these things.

 

[bbhero]

My theory is that the V6 motors actually work in a more synergistic way with the CVT. I agree it could also be that the xtronic CVT in my car could well be better constructed... Vs the ones in the 4 cylinder motors. . I have done a extensive amount of research and reading into my generation of CVTs... And it is way, way, way more common that the issues were far more common in the 4 cylinder motors.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by bbhero
My theory is that the V6 motors actually work in a more synergistic way with the CVT. I agree it could also be that the xtronic CVT in my car could well be better constructed... Vs the ones in the 4 cylinder motors. . I have done a extensive amount of research and reading into my generation of CVTs... And it is way, way, way more common that the issues were far more common in the 4 cylinder motors.


There is also the possibility of the I4 running at higher rpm than the V6, which could make a difference in CVT reliability

 

[caprice_2nv]

I think it's the same thing as having a torquey engine that doesn't constantly downshift on grades from 4th to 3rd or 6th to 5th etc in a regular automatic. They will last longer. Synergistic is just a fancy way of saying it. The transmission doesn't have to adjust as often when the engine has more torque.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by MoneyJohn
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by MoneyJohn
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

I would recommend a drain and fill early at 15-20K then 60K there after. I have read you will lose the extended warranty on the Fuji CVT if you do maintenance on it. That is insane as it has a severe service maintenance recommendation. I would have to read the service bulletin myself to believe this. In fact I'm going to search for it right now.

Good Luck with that. I have called most dealerships around me (close to the OP as well) and nobody would do that telling me that the fluid is lifetime. When you call them out on 'lifetime', they tell me that its a guideline from Subaru not to change the fluid.
My local mechanic is willing to change at 50K but it worries me that he changes the fluid and then CVT goes kaput, Subaru won't give me the stated replacement.

From what I have heard, most failed CVTs get sent to Japan to figure out what went wrong. Since OP's blew up, doubt they will send that. Most replacement CVTs are refurbs, about ~8k out the door.

I'm not sure what my manual says at the moment, but the Subaru dealers around here recommend changing the CVT fluid every 60kmiles.
Now, Toyota said the tranny fluid was lifetime in my RAV6...that also worked out great.

If I remember correctly, the manual never says replace, just says Inspect.
If you know any dealership in NE that does change tranny fluid, I would love to know. I got my car from Manchester, NH. I do plan to call them when I hit 50K if nobody else agrees by then.

Originally Posted by gathermewool

FXT: My local dealer couldn't do the fluid change. I let a second dealer know that it was an XT and asked if they had HTCVT fluid for the change. The SERVICE GUY said that they didn't off the top of his head, but could order some. The fact that he knew the difference impressed me. I scheduled the apt then and there.

When I asked how the fluid looked during the flush, the service guy asked the tech. The tech said it was darker orange than what went in, but didn't look bad to him. I should have had a sample drawn...


May I know the dealership that changed the fluid in your case?


Reynold's in Lyme.

 

[IMPALA08]

I got the Subaru back on Saturday. Drives much better and I no longer have that whining or delayed start. I think in April I'll check out the NY Auto show and see what suvs are comparable to the Forester w/o a CVT tranny.
BTW service advisor said they recommend 42000 CVT fluid flush that's every 7th oil change. It's against what Subaru NA says but their experience is the CVT last longer.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by IMPALA08
I got the Subaru back on Saturday. Drives much better and I no longer have that whining or delayed start. I think in April I'll check out the NY Auto show and see what suvs are comparable to the Forester w/o a CVT tranny.
BTW service advisor said they recommend 42000 CVT fluid flush that's every 7th oil change. It's against what Subaru NA says but their experience is the CVT last longer.


Good to hear some of them are doing what's right. Glad to hear it's fixed also.