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"Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" #5292060 12/12/19 04:28 AM
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wemay Offline OP
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Car and Driver: Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30199684/porsche-taycan-ev-range/

Screenshot_20191212-052507_Google News.jpg

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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292066 12/12/19 04:45 AM
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SteveSRT8 Offline
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IMO the Porsche offers a very different driving experience than the Tesla. The differences are very significant to a person who appreciates a certain "feel" and expects more than a sterile interior and driver interface. Has anyone here really sat in a late model Porsche? They have a very different interior than the two Teslas I am familiar with. This is opinion only.

The fact that they do not offer the same range may actually not hurt Porsche at all. Obviously Tesla has a big head start here, these offerings from Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc., will be developed and rapidly achieve at least a near parity with Tesla.

I can't see why anyone would imagine that the old established car companies won't eventually make a better EV.


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292083 12/12/19 05:20 AM
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UncleDave Offline
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Im sure it drives killer - its an awesome car no doubt.

The problem isn't that the Porsche is the least efficient EV, or even that is horrifically expensive.

It's that i missed the expectation window that was set by a HUGE margin for range and charging speed which were supposed to be best in class Tesla killing.

Everyone claimed that i was going to be easy to beat tesla and they had no advantages and were a bunch of dope smoking idiots - turns out its not so easy and the biggest companies one the world are having a hard time matching, much less beating tesla with nearly a decade of run time to catch them.

As to Steves point - eventually they might, but they have more work to do than they all thought they did from every angle except coach building which is the easiest part of building an EV.

They also do not have an infrastructure that can ever profit from EV's and create a huge loss on that sector thats offset by their regular ice vehicles so as their mix changes profitability will suffer.

UD


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292098 12/12/19 06:05 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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OUCH! It looks like its back to the drawing board for them.


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: SteveSRT8] #5292111 12/12/19 06:38 AM
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MCompact Offline
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Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
IMO the Porsche offers a very different driving experience than the Tesla. The differences are very significant to a person who appreciates a certain "feel" and expects more than a sterile interior and driver interface. Has anyone here really sat in a late model Porsche? They have a very different interior than the two Teslas I am familiar with. This is opinion only.

The fact that they do not offer the same range may actually not hurt Porsche at all. Obviously Tesla has a big head start here, these offerings from Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc., will be developed and rapidly achieve at least a near parity with Tesla.

I can't see why anyone would imagine that the old established car companies won't eventually make a better EV.


Don’t be ridiculous; you of all people should know that on BITOG the true experts are the people who have never even sat in the vehicle that they are criticizing.


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292117 12/12/19 06:47 AM
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wemay Offline OP
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I wonder what differences in testing exist between the EPA and the independent firm they're employing?

The truth is properly somewhere in the middle. EVs are a learning curve for all.


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292173 12/12/19 08:00 AM
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Virtus_Probi Offline
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I think we've all noticed that what we see in our real world applications doesn't necessarily match the EPA numbers.
But, obviously, the EPA has to use a standard testing regime so that different vehicles sold in the US can be compared.

Why did Porsche hire the outside team to do more testing when they could have just pointed to the European WLTP test result of a 280 mile range at no extra cost?


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292196 12/12/19 08:17 AM
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My sense is that anyone in the market for a efficient EV will not be looking at the Porsche. This is for a niche consumer segment.

Car and Driver magazine couldn’t say that in their article.


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292233 12/12/19 09:02 AM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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I think Porsche has egg on their face because they failed to live up to their promises.
Their promises were to better the (old) Tesla Model S in range and charging time.
They fell far short.

Some say they will do a better job sometime in the future, but they have had plenty of time to develop better results.
The Model S is going on 7 years old...
Porsche's resuources, engineering might and legendary experience surprisingly came up short in this regard.

The Taycan is an amazing car; it will make other EV companies better.
I wanna see the Tesla Roadster...


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292253 12/12/19 09:37 AM
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KrisZ Offline
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So it turns out other automakers can also over promise and under deliver. Who would of thought that?

When Tesla misses their goals it seems to upset many people. Many experts then chime in, claim Tesla is not a real car company and they have no idea what they're doing.

I don't see a similar reaction here. Do people at Porsche know what they're doing? Missing on such highly important goals is a rather obvious sign of their incompetence, if one uses the same measuring criteria.


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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292259 12/12/19 09:46 AM
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Tesla Roadster - the fastest production street legal car in the world.
0 to 60 MPH in 1.9 seconds, and that's conservative.
600+ mile range.
$200K

Take that, Taycan.

Tesla Roadster.jpg

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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: wemay] #5292264 12/12/19 09:50 AM
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it may fall short on range claims (maybe), but doesn't look like it falls short on fun. Of course for that price you could have a model 3 performance AND a nice ICE vehicle for long trips.



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Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: UncleDave] #5292285 12/12/19 10:11 AM
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Fundamentals: Poor efficiency means unnecessary heat loss in the power electronics, battery, and/or motors. That is a lot of heat here. Engineering failure. Maybe they will catch up in a few years.

That's how efficiency tells a story.

Tesla Model S 100D is at 3.35 miles/kWH
Taycan 2.15, big diff.
Audi Etron = Taycan at 2.15, interesting. Both aren't that good.
for comparison: Nissan Leaf = 3.61, a smaller lighter car, not far off Tesla's heavy Model S 100D numbers though!

A better measure of range potential is to look at "battery energy density". (Motors and power electronic efficiency gets better as evolution happens; i.e., Use better parts, VAG!)
Tesla Model S = 250 WH/kg, and a Chevy Bolt = 237 WH/kg, lagging behind Tesla.
Taycan = 190 WH/kg, using Inside EV's calculation methods, and I assume it's 1,389 lb battery pack has 389 lbs of structure & wires, an estimate. Not looking good for VAG here.
Of course that's just the battery tech. Still good to know how much energy goes into each kilogram of junk-in-the-trunk.
https://insideevs.com/news/342679/tesla-model-3-2170-energy-density-compared-to-bolt-model-s-p100d/ referencing the Model S and Bolt energy density.



Originally Posted by UncleDave
tesla with nearly a decade of run time
Actually it was15 years ago when the first Tesla Roadster (with Li-ion battery) entered the build phase.

Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: JeffKeryk] #5292292 12/12/19 10:20 AM
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Pew Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Tesla Roadster - the fastest production street legal car in the world.
0 to 60 MPH in 1.9 seconds, and that's conservative.
600+ mile range.
$200K

Take that, Taycan.



How can a car that's not even in production be the fastest production street legal car? And if we're going by Tesla's historical promised release dates, the MY2020 might as well be MY2023.

Last edited by Pew; 12/12/19 10:21 AM.
Re: "Porsche Taycan’s Terrible EPA Electric Range Makes It the Least Efficient EV" [Re: JeffKeryk] #5292301 12/12/19 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Tesla Roadster - the fastest production street legal car in the world.
0 to 60 MPH in 1.9 seconds, and that's conservative.
600+ mile range.
$200K

Take that, Taycan.





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