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Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: The Critic] #5291506 12/11/19 12:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,992
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bulwnkl Offline
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It has to have been difficult for Honda to maintain their R&D budget after the ‘80s and early ‘90s). Exchange rates then made it relatively easy for the Japanese to put more money into their products intended for North America, and still maintain very good profitability. That dynamic changed a while ago.

That said, my last Honda isn’t built ‘like a Honda.’ It’s not what I’d call bad, it’s just not what I expected based on many previous Honda experiences.

I like our Camry apart from IDIOTIC transmission programming. I love my Mazda 6.


I use speech recognition frequently. Please excuse any consequent grammatical or typographical errors.
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #5291542 12/11/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,358
grampi Offline
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Posts: 9,358
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Is it to much to hope we'll see decent Hondas being produced again?
Or at least they could start making them nice looking again...the new Civics are hideous looking...

Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: buster] #5291558 12/11/19 01:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,799
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Al Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,799
Originally Posted by buster

And arguably the best new AWD system on the market.

Huh? Only bc its the ONLY new one.


Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: HangFire] #5291976 12/11/19 10:45 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,139
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zzyzzx Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,139
Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Originally Posted by diyjake
^ That is so true. Mazda is making sweet vehicle these days.


If you like paying made in USA or Japan prices for a made in Mexico vehicle, sure.

are you insuating Mexicans cannot build a good car?

Perhaps he is insinuating that the American car companies building vehicles in Mexico for Japanese car prices might be the real problem.


I was saying that you would never know that a vehicle was made in Mexico by looking at the price tag. IMO, the savings should be passed along to the consumer.

Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: The Critic] #5293461 12/13/19 12:26 PM
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DGXR Offline
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I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon.
These are from Honda's good old days:

Prelude
[Linked Image from cdn04.carsforsale.com]
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Accord
[img]http://assets.superstreetonline.com/f/9500495.jpg?width=640&height=427[/img]

Civic
[Linked Image from static.cargurus.com]
[Linked Image from i.ytimg.com]


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 Base SR5 AC
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: DGXR] #5293467 12/13/19 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
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nthach Offline
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Posts: 6,221
Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon.
These are from Honda's good old days:


I think Honda's heyday was the 1990s, and the best Accord was the CB7 1990-1993 generation. Honda used to market themselves as simple and unpretentious.

Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: nthach] #5293650 12/13/19 04:46 PM
Joined: May 2019
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AC1DD Offline
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 739
Originally Posted by nthach



I think Honda's heyday was the 1990s, and the best Accord was the CB7 1990-1993 generation. Honda used to market themselves as simple and unpretentious. [/quote]

Ironically Honda's founder Sōichirō Honda passed away in 1991 just after the CB7 Accord came out in 1990...when he passed away others took over and it's pretty clear
they decided to IGNORE the playbook he invented, which was incredibly stupid and frankly idiotic. What I've always wondered is why the family didn't speak out about how the company increasingly strayed from what made the company great.

Last edited by AC1DD; 12/13/19 04:47 PM.
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: DGXR] #5293660 12/13/19 04:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,254
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slacktide_bitog Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,254
Originally Posted by DGXR
I do not like the "design language" of the new Hondas. Too busy and too complicated, too many angles and contours that the boy racers crave. I hope the simple and classy look comes back soon.
These are from Honda's good old days:

Prelude
[Linked Image from cdn04.carsforsale.com]
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Accord
[Linked Image from assets.superstreetonline.com]

Civic
[Linked Image from static.cargurus.com]
[Linked Image from i.ytimg.com]


I love the dash on that 4th gen Prelude. It looks awesome smile


[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: The Critic] #5293727 12/13/19 06:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 544
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pezzy669 Offline
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Posts: 544
My mom is (was?) a die hard Pilot fan owning an EX or EX-L of each generation, blindly buying the next gen because she was so happy with the previous. She is not a fan of her 3rd generation (EX-L) and she sums it up as 'its just not the same' and laments she wishes she never got rid of her 2nd gen EX. Blind brand loyalty though so once the time comes she will probably just trade it in for a 4th gen Pilot.

This is her first one with VCM so we shall see how that goes since 90% of her driving is within the parameters of VCM shutting off cylinders, curious to see if it becomes a problem as the miles pile on as she is only ~50k miles. She follows the maintenance minder and takes it to the Honda dealer when it first warns her maintenance is needed.


2012 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 69k - Castrol Edge Professional LL03 5W30
2011 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 49k - Castrol Edge Professional LL03 5W30
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: The Critic] #5294604 12/14/19 07:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 439
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PWMDMD Offline
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Posts: 439
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it.....

My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible.

I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!



Last edited by PWMDMD; 12/14/19 07:57 PM.

Current: 2019 Lexus RX 350 (Mobil AFE 0W-30 and Toyota OEM Filter) and 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (PP 5W-30 and Mobil 1 EP M1-110A Filter)
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: AC1DD] #5296291 12/16/19 06:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,221
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nthach Offline
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Originally Posted by AC1DD
What I've always wondered is why the family didn't speak out about how the company increasingly strayed from what made the company great.

I've read that one of Soichiro Honda's sons who ran Mugen got into trouble with the Japanese authorities for tax evasion or fraud. Another theory was that the Honda family didn't want their children involved in the family business.

Unlike Toyota with the Toyoda family or Ford, Honda doesn't have a family member involved on the board or the C-suite.

Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: PWMDMD] #5296301 12/16/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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CKN Offline
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Posts: 4,959
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it.....

My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible.

I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!




Motor Trend magazine has the same exact (transmission) issues. The dealer couldn't fix it-they took it in TWICE. They were not happy with the Pilot at all-but they wanted to be "politically correct" so they never called the transmission a piece of junk...even tho it was.

Last edited by CKN; 12/16/19 07:10 PM.
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: CKN] #5296414 12/16/19 09:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 439
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PWMDMD Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it.....

My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible.

I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!




Motor Trend magazine has the same exact (transmission) issues. The dealer couldn't fix it-they took it in TWICE. They were not happy with the Pilot at all-but they wanted to be "politically correct" so they never called the transmission a piece of junk...even tho it was.


It was a fundamental flaw in its design. Reprogramming the ECU helped a little after the first or second model year but that 1-2 issue was still there. I read there was some physical revisions done for 2019+ but I'm not sure if it made a difference. I believe one of the changes was it starts out in 2nd gear now unless you mash the pedal and then it will drop into 1st - basically avoiding the 1-2 shift. If that's the case then apparently the physical revisions didn't due the trick. Perhaps someone with a 2019 or 2020 can confirm. It's been awhile since I've visited the Pilot forums.

One would think in designing and testing you would get the 1-2 shift right since you are guaranteed to have to do it every single time you stop and then go. If it was the 8-9 shift I guess I could understand - around town you'd probably be unaware of it unless you got up to highway speeds...but the 1-2? Honda also decided to use this AT even after it was a disappointing disaster for FCA. All the same issues and then some starting in 2014 - TWO years before they put it in the Pilot. This decision really shines on what Honda has become - someone who doesn't really give a [censored] about putting out a good product - it's just about cost-containment and what can we do as cheaply as possible that won't be too much of a disappointment/generate too many complains or warranty claims. Honda's recent admission about problems with QC and design/engineering is telling about how they lost their way to a great extent.

Last edited by PWMDMD; 12/16/19 09:22 PM.

Current: 2019 Lexus RX 350 (Mobil AFE 0W-30 and Toyota OEM Filter) and 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (PP 5W-30 and Mobil 1 EP M1-110A Filter)
Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: PWMDMD] #5296477 12/16/19 10:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
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CKN Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
My 2018 Honda Pilot has been the worst vehicle I've owned in the past 15 years. The 9-speed sucks with an abrupt 1-2 shift 90% of the time. It's been in for warranty work twice in 20K miles for failed parts (leaking rear diff and bad HVAC blower). More rattles and squeaks than I can handle including the frame of the second and third row seats which will also need to be replaced under warranty. The rear suspension is the loudest "boomy" suspension I've ever driven. The interior is cheap plastic everywhere. My last few UOA have sucked with elevated copper, iron and aluminum. Thank goodness my wife drives it.....

My overall impression is the accountants are running R&D and they are trying to do everything as cheaply as possible.

I don't know if I'll buy Honda again.....at least they are admitting they have a problem. Now if Toyota would come out and admit they are the worst programmers of 8-speed transmission in the history of any automatic transmission and they're cars are boring to drive we'd be getting somewhere!




Motor Trend magazine has the same exact (transmission) issues. The dealer couldn't fix it-they took it in TWICE. They were not happy with the Pilot at all-but they wanted to be "politically correct" so they never called the transmission a piece of junk...even tho it was.


It was a fundamental flaw in its design. Reprogramming the ECU helped a little after the first or second model year but that 1-2 issue was still there. I read there was some physical revisions done for 2019+ but I'm not sure if it made a difference. I believe one of the changes was it starts out in 2nd gear now unless you mash the pedal and then it will drop into 1st - basically avoiding the 1-2 shift. If that's the case then apparently the physical revisions didn't due the trick. Perhaps someone with a 2019 or 2020 can confirm. It's been awhile since I've visited the Pilot forums.

One would think in designing and testing you would get the 1-2 shift right since you are guaranteed to have to do it every single time you stop and then go. If it was the 8-9 shift I guess I could understand - around town you'd probably be unaware of it unless you got up to highway speeds...but the 1-2? Honda also decided to use this AT even after it was a disappointing disaster for FCA. All the same issues and then some starting in 2014 - TWO years before they put it in the Pilot. This decision really shines on what Honda has become - someone who doesn't really give a [censored] about putting out a good product - it's just about cost-containment and what can we do as cheaply as possible that won't be too much of a disappointment/generate too many complains or warranty claims. Honda's recent admission about problems with QC and design/engineering is telling about how they lost their way to a great extent.


I hear ya. I bought a new 2018 Silverado a year ago-and it wasn't cheap (MSRP $52,000) and the 6 speed automatics in these trucks I refer to them as "clunk-O-Matics". So-Honda isn't alone. I had a 2012-I traded in-it had the same "unrefined" characteristics.

Re: Planned Changes at Honda [Re: The Critic] #5296496 12/16/19 11:06 PM
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Marco620 Offline
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Posts: 3,607
Sometimes they way forward is in the past. They need to bring the Honda racing department into their production car line so they can get things back to the good old days. Find the most reliable engine and transmission designs and put it in everything. No DI and forced induction together either. Only CVT in anything under 100hp. Transmission coolers on everything. Five to seven qt oil capacity on everything.0w30 or thicker too. I wish the Prelude would come back. Sorry to hijack the post,just want the Honda from the 80's/90's.


15' Civic 1.8 i-vtec 302,000 mi M1 AP 0w20 & LG Biotech, BP CVT Fluid,GUMOUT W/ PEA
Doberman Whisperer!
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