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Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? #5291301 12/11/19 10:50 AM
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Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
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I recently saw posts from users that said Penzoil Platinum is a 100% synthetic oil. The implication is that it is 100% PAO or PAO/Ester blend, not a Group 3 Hydro-cracked petroleum oil.

I know there are well known 100% synthetic lubes on the market, such as Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc. Is PP a true 100% synthetic oil?

Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291304 12/11/19 10:54 AM
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Nope

Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291310 12/11/19 10:56 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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This horse has been kicked around quite a bit. By US definition of synthetic oil it is, so I guess it is. wink


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291314 12/11/19 10:59 AM
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Doublehaul Offline
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Not a chance


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291331 12/11/19 11:11 AM
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I believe in the U.S. "synthetic" as it pertains to engine oil is a marketing term and not a legal definition. Oil mfgs here in the states can't seem to agree on a definition of "synthetic". Some say grp3's are so altered from their original form after processing that they should be called synthetic, the other side of that debate thinks otherwise and wants to reserve use of the term for grp4 and above.

So I guess the real question is what side of that debate do you fall in?

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/11/19 11:15 AM.
Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291335 12/11/19 11:13 AM
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paoester Offline
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Pennz Plat has no PAO according to Safety Data Sheets which normally have to name it. (They don't have to name esters, oddly enough, for health-safety reasons I don't understand.)
So its Group3+ GTL with maybe some esters to help out.

The NAD decided Group3/3+ can be labelled "full synthetic":
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...astrol-mobil-court-case-how-it-went-down

I'd just go by what performance specs an oil gets awarded, and not as much by what % of PAO or esters it has. Its interesting though to look at the different approaches companies take.
It appears that oil makers who have access to the most scientists and their fancy intellectual property (patents etc.) making cool effective advanced additives can many times save themselves the higher cost of going all-PAO in their base oils. They can meet the highest performance specs and not have to use much PAO at all.

Group3 or Group3+ base oils can be labelled as "full synthetic" everywhere except Germany, Switzerland, & Austria.
Notice the ~20% mass in a motor oil can be non-syn diluent for the additive chemicals, just to understand.

from a past thread:

Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
found this Total at my vendor store in Germany, the seller in the description says it's a "Synthese technology",

In France and the rest of Europe (except Germany, Austria and Switzerland. A&S were still using the German standard last time i looked in 2011) can call anything synthetic as long as they change the base stock by hydro cracking or maybe other methods.

A true synthetic will have "Full synthetic or vollsynthese" on the container.
The words synthetic or 100% synthetic is no guarantee its anything but reworked dino oil.
vollsynthese is reserved for group IV and V oils but there is a fly in the ointment now, GTL which by definition is a true full synthetic oil and is called group III+.
The question is will German law allow it to be labelled as such?

I have no problem running a modern group III oil at all anywhere as long as i wasn't paying the same or a premium over PAO or ester based oils.
Like i said GTL is an issue, you may find some oils being produced with this base stock but are not labelled "vollsynthese" because of legal definitions.

This is interesting.

http://www.stle.org/assets/document/GTL.pdf



Last edited by paoester; 12/11/19 11:26 AM.
Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: gizzsdad] #5291341 12/11/19 11:18 AM
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Triple_Se7en Online Content
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Originally Posted by gizzsdad
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
I recently saw posts from users that said Penzoil Platinum is a 100% synthetic oil. The implication is that it is 100% PAO or PAO/Ester blend, not a Group 3 Hydro-cracked petroleum oil.

I know there are well known 100% synthetic lubes on the market, such as Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc. Is PP a true 100% synthetic oil?


Nope

Wrong
Group 3 is now considered full synthetic. Courts said so.


2019 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 / OEM 35504 Filter
2020 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - a 50-50 blend of Pennzoil Platinum HM & Pennzoil Gold 5w30 // AC Delco PF1127 Ecore




Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5291363 12/11/19 11:39 AM
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kschachn Online Content
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Wrong
Group 3 is now considered full synthetic. Courts said so.

No they didn't.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291366 12/11/19 11:40 AM
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ZZman Offline
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It is a synthetic just not a high end boutique synthetic.

It is considered a syn oil due to the Group III being changed in the hydrocracking process.

Last edited by ZZman; 12/11/19 11:51 AM.

2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 3.5 motor
2014 Ford Fusion 2.5 motor
Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5291367 12/11/19 11:41 AM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by gizzsdad
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
I recently saw posts from users that said Penzoil Platinum is a 100% synthetic oil. The implication is that it is 100% PAO or PAO/Ester blend, not a Group 3 Hydro-cracked petroleum oil.

I know there are well known 100% synthetic lubes on the market, such as Redline, Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc. Is PP a true 100% synthetic oil?


Nope

Wrong
Group 3 is now considered full synthetic. Courts said so.


It was the BBB not the court system.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
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Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291379 12/11/19 11:49 AM
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You would think that after all this time the facts would be known straight.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/950311/1


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: OVERKILL] #5291410 12/11/19 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Courts said so.
It was the BBB not the court system.

"Court" strongly implies a government court. No, Judge Judy was not there, OK, got it. Sure it was NAD-BBB, but there were lots of lawyers, evidence, testimonials, opinions, rulings, & with the potential for Mobil to appeal. Sounds like a court at least. Main difference between the NAD-BBB "proceedings" and a civil suit is that Mobil was under no requirement to prove/argue damages of any kind, and the results were not legally binding, unless agreed to ahead of time which I think both parties did anyway.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Found this this morning and thought that it was a good article on WHAT was argued and decided on and by who. http://xtremerevolution.net/a-defining-moment-for-synthetics-by-katherine-bui-lubricants-world-1999/



Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: paoester] #5291430 12/11/19 12:23 PM
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LEADED Offline
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I bet you're Engine will not know the difference , move on

Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5291470 12/11/19 12:54 PM
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Don't they make it from natural, as in not synthetic, gas? I'm happy with not knowing more than what is says on the botlte. Eventually there has to be a limit on time spent thinking about lubricating oils for engines.

Re: Penzoil Platinum 100% Synthetic ???? [Re: Farnsworth] #5291475 12/11/19 01:00 PM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Don't they make it from natural, as in not synthetic, gas?

That depends on how you define "synthetic". I've read both sides of the argument and each makes a compelling case for their position...so you got me. Guess if I had to choose a side of the fence to sit on I'd say grp3's are "synthetic". But at the end of the day I'm not going to lose any sleep over whether I'm right or wrong.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/11/19 01:01 PM.
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