Recent Topics
Best entry level riding mower
by UncleDave - 06/01/20 03:02 PM
2015 Pilot LX
by madRiver - 06/01/20 03:01 PM
charge 12v truck battery with more or less amps?
by apollo18 - 06/01/20 02:10 PM
Wash and wax in one
by rrretiree7 - 06/01/20 02:08 PM
$99 fair for wheel balance & front alignment?
by mclasser - 06/01/20 01:34 PM
Help me fix this 2001 YZF 600R
by Kurtatron - 06/01/20 12:29 PM
Super Auto filter
by cknight49090 - 06/01/20 12:20 PM
Shopping for New Generator
by doolah02 - 06/01/20 12:02 PM
Horsepower in Various Modes
by Al - 06/01/20 11:39 AM
ATF Flush vs Drain and Fill
by diyjake - 06/01/20 11:24 AM
Is Your Vehicle Deadly?
by SubLGT - 06/01/20 11:02 AM
Question on the bottom of bottle with Penz Platinum
by babyivan - 06/01/20 10:55 AM
Used Mitsubishi Lancer prices
by 97prizm - 06/01/20 10:32 AM
Which oil is the better quality
by galaxy333 - 06/01/20 09:57 AM
"Boutique" Brands
by buster - 06/01/20 09:15 AM
CASTROL Edge 5w20 or EP 5w20
by 53' Stude - 06/01/20 09:09 AM
BT Oil
by js1956 - 06/01/20 09:00 AM
Newest Members
chapys, DaaBoss, C6H8O7, Jcvjr, Haywood
71590 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
74 registered members (10WSmuckers, 2010Civic, 53' Stude, 99cyclone, ABN_CBT_ENGR, 7 invisible), 2,545 guests, and 30 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics306,031
Posts5,286,091
Members71,590
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 7 1 4 5 6 7
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Railrust] #5290702 12/10/19 06:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,079
dave1251 Offline
Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,079
Nothing you did there simulated engine operation and combustion. For a chemical cleaning vaildation to be accurate the entire cycle has to replicated. Although this demonstration was had it's effect it's not realistic.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://youtu.be/48JSlXlvMC0


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: paoester] #5290713 12/10/19 07:10 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
D
Doublehaul Offline
Offline
D
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
I’ve got a top shelf borescope (bad rifle addiction) and run full saps oils in a couple of Japanese port injection jobs. Anyone want to see a movie ?


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: paoester] #5290732 12/10/19 07:31 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
D
Doublehaul Offline
Offline
D
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
It does make you wonder though...how much is high/low saps oil and how much is bad engine design. Id bet money none of those clowns ever ran a full saps oil


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Doublehaul] #5290733 12/10/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 106
B
BucDan Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
I’ve got a top shelf borescope (bad rifle addiction) and run full saps oils in a couple of Japanese port injection jobs. Anyone want to see a movie ?


Sure!


2013 Audi S4 6MT - 45K miles
- OCI every 5K miles
- Motul X-cess 5w-40
- Mann OEM oil filter
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Doublehaul] #5290754 12/10/19 08:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 196
E
earthbound Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
I’ve got a top shelf borescope (bad rifle addiction) and run full saps oils in a couple of Japanese port injection jobs. Anyone want to see a movie ?


in summary..the plot will be very boring especially the 4.0l in that 4r


19' Honda Crv 1.5T
19' Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
06' Pontiac/yoda Vibe
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: paoester] #5290777 12/10/19 08:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 643
P
paoester Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 643
Anybody know how much a walnut blast on a modern 4-cylinder costs?
And, if we do it, we can ask them to make sure they vacuum out the debris as best as possible.

I do see one place will do a BMW for $250. Sounds cheap. They say its "required" every 40k miles. Not by BMW, but I see their argument.
http://socalbmwinstalls.com/walnut-shell-blasting/
Other places charge more I'll bet.

Last edited by paoester; 12/10/19 08:40 PM.
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: dave1251] #5290819 12/10/19 08:58 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
Originally Posted by dave1251
Nothing you did there simulated engine operation and combustion. For a chemical cleaning vaildation to be accurate the entire cycle has to replicated. Although this demonstration was had it's effect it's not realistic.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://youtu.be/48JSlXlvMC0

Good vid. 👍

I suspect after a 2nd treatment there'd be even more (a fair amount of) clean metal. Obviously staying on top of things by regular treatments will help keep it from getting that bad to begin with.

Edit: there are videos on Chevron's site where they run 2 engines on a dyno out to 100k (IIRC) and pull the valves and compare by weight the valves exposed to Techron and just regular non top tier fuel. It's obvious that the Techron (pea) fuel cleans and prevents IVDs.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/10/19 09:04 PM.
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: paoester] #5290871 12/10/19 09:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,280
Bryanccfshr Offline
Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,280
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...nes-have-both-port-and-direct-injection/

“The ultimate strategy is combining both PI and DI benefits, using each to diminish the other’s negatives. Toyota, for example, fires both injectors during low to medium load and rpm conditions—in other words, during normal driving. This raises the density of the incoming charge without boosting and flushes carbon deposits off the intake valves. During high load and rpm circumstances, when maximum combustion chamber cooling is needed because detonation is more likely, DI handles all the fuel delivery.”[quote][/quote]


Some engines have better pvc baffling than others as well.

But automakers who are using both injection methods are able to do more than just keep the intake valves clean, they improve tuning variables.


2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: paoester] #5290944 12/10/19 11:25 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
D
Doublehaul Offline
Offline
D
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
I can’t help but feel that the tail has wagged the dog here. We’ve been force fed a bunch of non-proven technology that improves nothing for the owner. Instead it helps the mfgr skirt around epa regs and avoid penalties at the cost of the owner.

I’m not anti tech...I hated carbs. EFI was a huge step...forced induction is great for performance applications.

But...Why do I have to literally search out old technology to get a reliable vehicle?

No brand is beyond reproach here...

GDI...TGDI = GFY


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5290969 12/10/19 11:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,079
dave1251 Offline
Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,079
Thank you I agree with both a 2nd treatment would likely do more cleaning and Techron at least in my experience plays a role on reducing the formation of carbon deposits.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: paoester] #5290976 12/11/19 12:10 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
D
Doublehaul Offline
Offline
D
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 731
How does this interact with the cats? Just a thought


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: dave1251] #5291050 12/11/19 04:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 748
R
Railrust Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by dave1251
Nothing you did there simulated engine operation and combustion. For a chemical cleaning vaildation to be accurate the entire cycle has to replicated. Although this demonstration was had it's effect it's not realistic.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://youtu.be/48JSlXlvMC0


Ok I agree, but I'd say what I did was actually more beneficial to that valve than just spraying one can into a throttle body and hoping it directly hits every single valve on an engine. Never mind the amount that flies right past the valve into the cylinder and out the exhaust...or the amount that sticks to the manifold.

I sprayed an entire can directly onto the valve. Then I added a bottle of intake/engine cleaner...let it soak for four hours. I rapidly moved the valve back and forth in that solution every half hour. Then I took the valve out and heated it with a torch (while the solution was on the valve). Then I put the valve back into the solution for another hour. Then I took the valve out and sprayed another can onto it. Almost no carbon came off. A few specs here and there.

I agree it's not engine simulation, but I more than reached engine temps to that valve. I saturated that valve much more than any valve would have gotten with a can or two induced into an intake manifold.

I've seen that video before, I've also seen others where there is minimal (at best) removal of carbon from various products. I would venture to bet water would work just as good. I'd also venture to guess that if you boroscoped an engine...before and after...without adding anything at all...you'd also see "something". Something would happen. Moisture from the PCV valve...engine heat...rapid up and down movement of the valve...turbulence of air passing the seat/stem of the valve. I'd venture that you would see some sort of change/improvement, until the valve cokes again.

I think every one of these companies that sell carbon cleaning solutions should be required to pull the manifold, take video and pictures of the valves (before)...put the manifold back on, run their solution through and then remove the manifold and show the results. There is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be required to show this. Maybe some do? I haven't seen it. I've seen some before and after photos...probably of one port (either right by the PCV or directly in front of the throttle body). Show the whole story...one run with one can. Video evidence. One can.


2018 Chevy Silverado 5.3
2007 Lexus LS460 (deceased)
2008 Honda CRV
(Whatever synthetic oil is on sale or rebate)
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Railrust] #5291133 12/11/19 08:36 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
Originally Posted by Railrust
Originally Posted by dave1251
Nothing you did there simulated engine operation and combustion. For a chemical cleaning vaildation to be accurate the entire cycle has to replicated. Although this demonstration was had it's effect it's not realistic.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://youtu.be/48JSlXlvMC0


Ok I agree, but I'd say what I did was actually more beneficial to that valve than just spraying one can into a throttle body and hoping it directly hits every single valve on an engine. Never mind the amount that flies right past the valve into the cylinder and out the exhaust...or the amount that sticks to the manifold.

I sprayed an entire can directly onto the valve. Then I added a bottle of intake/engine cleaner...let it soak for four hours. I rapidly moved the valve back and forth in that solution every half hour. Then I took the valve out and heated it with a torch (while the solution was on the valve). Then I put the valve back into the solution for another hour. Then I took the valve out and sprayed another can onto it. Almost no carbon came off. A few specs here and there.

I agree it's not engine simulation, but I more than reached engine temps to that valve. I saturated that valve much more than any valve would have gotten with a can or two induced into an intake manifold.

I've seen that video before, I've also seen others where there is minimal (at best) removal of carbon from various products. I would venture to bet water would work just as good. I'd also venture to guess that if you boroscoped an engine...before and after...without adding anything at all...you'd also see "something". Something would happen. Moisture from the PCV valve...engine heat...rapid up and down movement of the valve...turbulence of air passing the seat/stem of the valve. I'd venture that you would see some sort of change/improvement, until the valve cokes again.

I think every one of these companies that sell carbon cleaning solutions should be required to pull the manifold, take video and pictures of the valves (before)...put the manifold back on, run their solution through and then remove the manifold and show the results. There is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be required to show this. Maybe some do? I haven't seen it. I've seen some before and after photos...probably of one port (either right by the PCV or directly in front of the throttle body). Show the whole story...one run with one can. Video evidence. One can.

Are you suggesting the Illuminati is behind some deep state like IVD cleaner conspiracy??😨😂

Have you thought about calling GM and telling them their Delco Top Engine spray cleaner (that is literally specd in GM TSB's) is BS?...While you're at it, call Chevron, Gumout and CRC Ind. and let us know what they say in re to your thoughts...oh and call Valvoline too while you're at it because they mfg a spray in IVD cleaners too.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/11/19 08:39 AM.
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5291562 12/11/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 748
R
Railrust Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Railrust
Originally Posted by dave1251
Nothing you did there simulated engine operation and combustion. For a chemical cleaning vaildation to be accurate the entire cycle has to replicated. Although this demonstration was had it's effect it's not realistic.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://youtu.be/48JSlXlvMC0


Ok I agree, but I'd say what I did was actually more beneficial to that valve than just spraying one can into a throttle body and hoping it directly hits every single valve on an engine. Never mind the amount that flies right past the valve into the cylinder and out the exhaust...or the amount that sticks to the manifold.

I sprayed an entire can directly onto the valve. Then I added a bottle of intake/engine cleaner...let it soak for four hours. I rapidly moved the valve back and forth in that solution every half hour. Then I took the valve out and heated it with a torch (while the solution was on the valve). Then I put the valve back into the solution for another hour. Then I took the valve out and sprayed another can onto it. Almost no carbon came off. A few specs here and there.

I agree it's not engine simulation, but I more than reached engine temps to that valve. I saturated that valve much more than any valve would have gotten with a can or two induced into an intake manifold.

I've seen that video before, I've also seen others where there is minimal (at best) removal of carbon from various products. I would venture to bet water would work just as good. I'd also venture to guess that if you boroscoped an engine...before and after...without adding anything at all...you'd also see "something". Something would happen. Moisture from the PCV valve...engine heat...rapid up and down movement of the valve...turbulence of air passing the seat/stem of the valve. I'd venture that you would see some sort of change/improvement, until the valve cokes again.

I think every one of these companies that sell carbon cleaning solutions should be required to pull the manifold, take video and pictures of the valves (before)...put the manifold back on, run their solution through and then remove the manifold and show the results. There is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be required to show this. Maybe some do? I haven't seen it. I've seen some before and after photos...probably of one port (either right by the PCV or directly in front of the throttle body). Show the whole story...one run with one can. Video evidence. One can.

Are you suggesting the Illuminati is behind some deep state like IVD cleaner conspiracy??😨😂

Have you thought about calling GM and telling them their Delco Top Engine spray cleaner (that is literally specd in GM TSB's) is BS?...While you're at it, call Chevron, Gumout and CRC Ind. and let us know what they say in re to your thoughts...oh and call Valvoline too while you're at it because they mfg a spray in IVD cleaners too.


Yes, my goal is they'll have to pay me enough money to keep me quiet...or I'll end up in a ditch. Netflix will probably make a new "original" film about it...they'll call it "Selling Fear, carbon cleaning conspiracies".

But you're really on to something about the GM TSB. Yeah GM has never failed at one of those. Bawahaha. I remember their "remedy" for their noisy intermediate shafts...inject the shaft, then stroke it fifteen times. Yeah, that worked like a charm. We all looked like we were giving hand jobs to steering systems. Never did get rid of that noise...well it may have gotten a few out of the warranty period. Good old GM.

Last edited by Railrust; 12/11/19 02:26 PM.

2018 Chevy Silverado 5.3
2007 Lexus LS460 (deceased)
2008 Honda CRV
(Whatever synthetic oil is on sale or rebate)
Re: Valve Stem Carbon Build-up from Oil in DI Engines [Re: Railrust] #5291730 12/11/19 06:13 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
Originally Posted by Railrust

But you're really on to something about the GM TSB. Yeah GM has never failed at one of those. Bawahaha. I remember their "remedy" for their noisy intermediate shafts...inject the shaft, then stroke it fifteen times. Yeah, that worked like a charm. We all looked like we were giving hand jobs to steering systems. Never did get rid of that noise...well it may have gotten a few out of the warranty period. Good old GM.

TMI

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/11/19 06:13 PM.
Page 5 of 7 1 4 5 6 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™