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Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5290015 12/10/19 05:40 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Yep, the guys here that bought (hypothetical) 10 five quart jugs of Gas Truck, to feed their engines for the next several years, will be in Sell-Sell Mode and starving for the first-ever sales on GF6 oils.

LOL I might miss that liquid of the Gods for one OCI, maybe.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5290034 12/10/19 06:58 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Yep, the guys here that bought (hypothetical) 10 five quart jugs of Gas Truck, to feed their engines for the next several years, will be in Sell-Sell Mode and starving for the first-ever sales on GF6 oils.

If your current oil is D1G2 I believe it's technically the equivalent of GF6, as there's little space between the two as far as requirements go. Don't quote me on that but I believe it to be true. And fwiw, many of the current crop of SN+ lubes will meet GF-6 test requirements without reformulation. For example I asked this exact question of Gena Fishbeck of SOPUS and she indicated all PP/PUP would meet GF-6 without reformulation. You can read her answer to my question in one of the sticky threads..

I suspect SOPUS is probably not the only in this regards..but I guess the only way to know for sure is to inquire.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/10/19 07:03 AM.
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290133 12/10/19 08:45 AM
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I poked around a bit and was surprised to read on api.org that SJ, SL, SM, and SN are all "current" oil categories. Seems like "Resource Conserving" and "SN PLUS" are possible additional classifications of SN oils, but just plain SN is still valid.
So, the SN situation is a bit different from that with the recent dexos1 changes...dexos1 Gen 2 is the only current spec and dexos1 is considered obsolete.

I did find a scholarly paper that claimed that magnesium-based detergents could interfere with the beneficial synergy of ZDDP and MoS2, but that the use of certain boron-based additives negated that interference. I posted a link to it a few years ago, but don't have it handy right now.

Somebody who wants to keep using oils with a good dose of calcium should think about looking for the A3/B4 classification, every oil of that type for which I have seen UOA/VOAs has been high in calcium...not that I can call that proof of anything. For example, M1 0W40 has been unusual in the commonly available (thinking WM here) XOM oils in having a lot of calcium when most of their oils seemed to have gone low Ca maybe 10 years ago.
Honestly, if you don't have a Direct Injection Turbo (DIT) engine, SN PLUS probably means nothing to you and I don't blame somebody who wants to stick with the older formulations. I have two DITs in my family now and am grateful for d1G2 and SN+...


2014 Forester XT, 114800 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline AFS 5W30
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 oil filter
Subaru 16546AA10A air filter
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290165 12/10/19 09:19 AM
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Farnsworth Offline
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With Pennzoil the SN and SN + are both SN+ except for the label on the bottle. I imagine that is true for the other majors too, but Pennz actually states it.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: demarpaint] #5290181 12/10/19 09:30 AM
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ka9mnx Online Content
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
In time SN and SN+ will be gone, replaced GF6, etc. A slow evolution.

Not so fast. SN+ is an API cert and GF-6 is ILSAC. SN++ or SO?
I'm using SN+/D1G2 oil in my old junks and they like it!


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290205 12/10/19 09:49 AM
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Polyalphaolefin Offline
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there are still API SL oils in production

(shell helix ultra proffesional AF, Mobil super 3000 x1, comma x-tech, and many more with ACEA A5B5 (ford 913C/D) spec.,,,


Car: KIA Ceed JD 1.4 MPI
OIL: 5w30 ACEA A5 / A3; 5w40 ACEA A3; 0w40 ACEA A3
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: ka9mnx] #5290215 12/10/19 10:03 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by demarpaint
In time SN and SN+ will be gone, replaced GF6, etc. A slow evolution.

Not so fast. SN+ is an API cert and GF-6 is ILSAC. SN++ or SO?
I'm using SN+/D1G2 oil in my old junks and they like it!

Ok, and I'm using SN and SN+ in old junk, and not so old gems They love it too. In fact I can't tell the difference between the SN and the SN+ to be honest. I don't think SN++ or GF6 whatever, is going to make a difference to me either.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: Polyalphaolefin] #5290244 12/10/19 10:47 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by Polyalphaolefin
there are still API SL oils in production

(shell helix ultra proffesional AF, Mobil super 3000 x1, comma x-tech, and many more with ACEA A5B5 (ford 913C/D) spec.,,,

Not on the shelves of Wally's that I've seen. You want older API oil, make a run for Tijuana or Jaurez and stock up.😉

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290411 12/10/19 01:49 PM
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hallstevenson Offline
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Originally Posted by natas
Yes...but *will* SN oil continue to be available? Or will all the major brands replace all their SN products (Chevron, Valvoline,Pennzoil, etc. etc.) with SN+. i.e., only SN+ will be available on the shelf since it "supersedes all previous API categories)?

In other words, when I goto Walmart, will I soon (if not now) *not* be able to get an SN oil from a preferred brand--and only have SN+ to choose from?

As you say, SN+ supersedes SN engine oil, just like SN superseded SM oil, back to SJ. Over time, the oil manufacturers or blenders surely begin to phase out the older categories. I'm not sure if an API SM oil is even readily available anymore, at least not from the big-name producers, especially if you're buying your oil from Walmart, auto parts stores, etc.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290912 12/10/19 10:34 PM
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natas Offline OP
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Here's a curve ball (and not to start an Oil War), for those who use motor oil in a motorcycle (like GTX, or Mobil1, etc. <T4-6 Rotella excluded since not SN/SN+ for purpose of this question>). Motorcycle oil--"proper"--motorcycle oil usually has 1500+ (usually 2000-3000ppm) of Calcium. [and I'm trying to say this as diplomatically as possible for all sides..lol) For those souls who use motor oil (SN) in their motorcycles, how will the new SN+ formulas do with respect to the engine/shared sump. Would the lower Calcium and increased Magnesium be of the [again, avoiding an oil war] cause of any *new* detriment? For the sake of argument, lets say some guy uses motor oil on his bike with no problems with SN oil (finds a good high Ca, low/no moly decent phosphorous and zinc, etc.--is happy etc.etc.--How will the SN+ oil be compared to the SN he was putting in it? Will/Should it perform overall as expected as it did or better? Will the Magnesium do an as good or better job w/ respect to the reduced Calcium proportions (the Ca/Mg blend works as a team) so everything would perform the same as before, if not better--or about Magnesium's perceived abrasiveness? This is not including anything about clutch slippage/friction modifiers (moly) issue/argument, but just on the Ca/Mg relationship in a motorcycle engine. I'm a little high right now, so I babble.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290951 12/10/19 11:34 PM
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Doublehaul Offline
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Most MC guys imho are looking for JASO speced oil. I know I am in my atv.

[censored] I want want a motorcycle...the Suzuki cruisers look awesome!


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
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