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SN vs SN+ #5289934 12/09/19 11:02 PM
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natas Offline OP
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I was wondering if anyone could help me understand any real benefit using the new SN+ oils, as opposed to the SN oils in a regular non turbo-charged, non TGDI automobile? Looking at various VOAs, generally speaking, the calcium numbers have gone way down, usually around 500-600ppm, while magnesium levels have gone way up, giving a rough Ca/Mg total of around 1900ppm-2000ppm. For example if an old SN oil had Ca of around 1900-2100, it will now be around 1500. And Mg will be around 400-500. I understand how this may be good for the whole LSPI thing, but what about in a regular (older) car? In addition, it was my <limited> understanding that Magnesium is a more abrasive detergent than Calcium, so I was just wondering how better/worse/the same it would be vs. its replaced SN counterpart--mainly for engine protection/wear. If anyone can educate me on this, I would be most appreciative. I know the new standards supersede the previous ones, etc.etc., but when seeing the numbers drop, and others add up to address a newer type of engine, while the API protection parameters might be "sufficient", I'm just wondering if ALL potential "good-aspects" of the SN+ will be applied to older car engines (i.e. Manifold Fuel Injection, Fuel Rail, or even Carbureted). Thank you.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289936 12/09/19 11:06 PM
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demarpaint Offline
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I doubt there's any benefit at all for the engine type you mentioned.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: demarpaint] #5289943 12/09/19 11:23 PM
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natas Offline OP
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
I doubt there's any benefit at all for the engine type you mentioned.



I think you may be right--and correct me if I'm wrong, but won't SN oil will be phased out (i.e. no longer available as stock dwindles) off the shelf--or will be be continued to be sold/produced alongside SN+ oil?

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289954 12/09/19 11:47 PM
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Doublehaul Offline
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IIRC the only difference is low speed pre ignition

If you want advantages in non tgdi or gdi or frankly with either of the following dexos 1 gen 2 is what your after


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: Doublehaul] #5289959 12/10/19 12:05 AM
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natas Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doublehaul
IIRC the only difference is low speed pre ignition

If you want advantages in non tgdi or gdi or frankly with either of the following dexos 1 gen 2 is what your after


Just everyday cars, 2000-2010s toyotas, 2000s chryslers, 90s GMs, etc. Nothing too new.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289963 12/10/19 12:11 AM
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I would not worry about the detergents and wear. The wear requirements did not lessen.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289974 12/10/19 12:41 AM
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SN+ was introduced to address LSPI specifically. You have a NA engine so API SN/GF5 is more than sufficient but if timing chain wear is of particular concern of yours, Dexos 1 Gen 2 would serve you well.

Fwiw, the upcoming release of GF6 will address TC and LSPI concerns IIRC. (similar to Dexos 1 but the testing is slightly different IIRC)

Good discussion on Mag v. Cal

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2089814#Post2089814

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 12/10/19 12:45 AM.
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5289975 12/10/19 12:47 AM
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natas Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
SN+ was introduced to address LSPI specifically. You have a NA engine so API SN/GF5 is more than sufficient but if timing chain wear is of particular concern of yours, Dexos 1 Gen 2 would serve you well.

Fwiw, the upcoming release of GF6 will address TC and LSPI concerns IIRC. (similar to Dexos 1 but the testing is slightly different IIRC)

Good discussion on Mag v. Cal

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2089814#Post2089814



Yes...but *will* SN oil continue to be available? Or will all the major brands replace all their SN products (Chevron, Valvoline,Pennzoil, etc. etc.) with SN+. i.e., only SN+ will be available on the shelf since it "supersedes all previous API categories)?

In other words, when I goto Walmart, will I soon (if not now) *not* be able to get an SN oil from a preferred brand--and only have SN+ to choose from?

Last edited by natas; 12/10/19 12:53 AM.
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289982 12/10/19 01:34 AM
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Char Baby Online Content
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[quote: natas] In other words, when I goto Walmart, will I soon (if not now) *not* be able to get an SN oil from a preferred brand--and only have SN+ to choose from?[quote]

I would say yes, that would be my thinking.

Last edited by Char Baby; 12/10/19 01:37 AM.

"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic 1.8 LX
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289990 12/10/19 03:07 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by natas
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
SN+ was introduced to address LSPI specifically. You have a NA engine so API SN/GF5 is more than sufficient but if timing chain wear is of particular concern of yours, Dexos 1 Gen 2 would serve you well.

Fwiw, the upcoming release of GF6 will address TC and LSPI concerns IIRC. (similar to Dexos 1 but the testing is slightly different IIRC)

Good discussion on Mag v. Cal

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2089814#Post2089814



Yes...but *will* SN oil continue to be available? Or will all the major brands replace all their SN products (Chevron, Valvoline,Pennzoil, etc. etc.) with SN+. i.e., only SN+ will be available on the shelf since it "supersedes all previous API categories)?

In other words, when I goto Walmart, will I soon (if not now) *not* be able to get an SN oil from a preferred brand--and only have SN+ to choose from?

Well if past is precedence I'd say that SN will eventually fade away from Wally's shelves as more and more new vehicle owners manuals begin to spec API SP/GF-6 and command space on the shelves. If you want/prefer the pre SN+ levels of Cal/Mag you're gonna have to hunt it down. But I *think* low Cal is here to stay since the consensus seems to be it's an antagonist to LSPI events.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5289993 12/10/19 03:22 AM
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Imp4 Offline
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Originally Posted by natas


Yes...but *will* SN oil continue to be available? Or will all the major brands replace all their SN products (Chevron, Valvoline,Pennzoil, etc. etc.) with SN+. i.e., only SN+ will be available on the shelf since it "supersedes all previous API categories)?

In other words, when I goto Walmart, will I soon (if not now) *not* be able to get an SN oil from a preferred brand--and only have SN+ to choose from?

No, SN will not continue to be available. It is currently being replaced by SN+ and that is a good thing.
With the exception of a few very specific circumstances, API oils are backwards compatible. That means that the SN+ oil exceeds the performance requirements of SN oil and the SN+ oil can be used in any situation where SN oil is specified.


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290002 12/10/19 03:59 AM
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SN+ is fine going forward for any engine. It passes the same engine tests as for SN, plus one LSPI test was added. .... We have another year left of it, and then SP (GF6) takes over.
Current dexos1 oil is better than SN or SN+ ratings alone, and combining dexos1 with SP GF6 later on will be a bit better still.

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290006 12/10/19 04:08 AM
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My oil stash should be gone when GF6 arrives.


19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Valv Adv. 5w30 / OEM Oil Filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly
20' Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 Multi-port / Pennzoil Gold 5W30 / OEM filter
04' Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 / K&N filter
Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: natas] #5290007 12/10/19 04:13 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by natas
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I doubt there's any benefit at all for the engine type you mentioned.



I think you may be right--and correct me if I'm wrong, but won't SN oil will be phased out (i.e. no longer available as stock dwindles) off the shelf--or will be be continued to be sold/produced alongside SN+ oil?

In time SN and SN+ will be gone, replaced GF6, etc. A slow evolution.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: SN vs SN+ [Re: demarpaint] #5290011 12/10/19 04:28 AM
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Yep, the guys here that bought (hypothetical) 10 five quart jugs of Gas Truck, to feed their engines for the next several years, will be in Sell-Sell Mode and starving for the first-ever sales on GF6 oils.


19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Valv Adv. 5w30 / OEM Oil Filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly
20' Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 Multi-port / Pennzoil Gold 5W30 / OEM filter
04' Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 / K&N filter
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