Tesla V3 Supercharger - 1,000 MPH

[JeffKeryk]

Will it will cut charging time in half or blow up my battery? Maybe both?
Will I have time to hit the magic money machine and get my Starbucks?
Will somebody park in the charging stalls? (Kidding...)
Tesla V3 Supercharger

 

[Cujet]

I am glad to see the faster charge rates. Just as a silly data point, the flow rate on automotive gasoline dispensers is limited to 10 gallons per minute or about 21,000 miles of range per hour for a 35mpg car.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I am sure everyone will love faster charging. Since there is usually a trade off between battery life vs. fast charge I always wonder where the bean counters have set the standard...

 

[JeffKeryk]

A step in the right direction, as far as EVs go.
In the EV space, it seems all the other companies continue to fall further behind the leader.

 

[A_Harman]

Oh, I see; the 1000 miles/hour is the rate at which driving range is being added. That sounds impressive because it has never been an issue how quickly driving range is added to IC cars when the fuel tanks are being filled. It's just another bogus stat to make electric cars seem impressive.

So, in the way of comparison:
High speed diesel fuel dispensers operate at 23 gallons/minute (1380 gal/hr), so when I am filling the tank in my diesel pickup, which gets 17 mpg, I am adding range at the rate of 23,460 miles/hour. (And this number is easily changed by increasing the flow rate of the pump; I have seen references to fuel dispenser flow rates of 60 gpm.)
See, diesel fuel is 23 times better than electricity!

OR,

What is the flow rate of potential energy when I am filling my tank at 23 gpm? Diesel fuel density is 7 lb/gal, so the mass flow rate is 161 lb/min. Converting to metric, that is 73 kg/min. The energy content of diesel fuel is typically 43 MJ/kg, so the energy flow rate is 3139 MJ/min. Converting to kilowatts: 3139000 kJ/min x 1min/60sec = 52317 kW. This is 209 times the energy flow rate of the Tesla V3 charger.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Comparing ICE fueling to EV charging misses the point. They are different.
I posted this to show the incremental gain in EV technology.

 

[A_Harman]

Hasn't Tesla given guidance on how the higher charging rate affects battery capacity or life?
It seems like if high-speed charging damages the battery, a warning should be posted on it, or a pop-up should appear on the screen when the high-speed charging rate is selected.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Hasn't Tesla given guidance on how the higher charging rate affects battery capacity or life?
It seems like if high-speed charging damages the battery, a warning should be posted on it, or a pop-up should appear on the screen when the high-speed charging rate is selected.


There are multiple protections in place for the battery.

The 1000MPH rate will not occur if the battery is more than approx 1/8-1/4 full, and the battery has to be pre-warmed to accept this charge which it will do automatically when you select a v3 charger as a destination.

For standard sedan/SUV passenger vehicles, the trip times become much closer and in many cases beat the gas vehicle as you skip the pre and post-trip refill which occur at the destinations.

2-15 minutes stops add 400 miles of range.


As Jeff says Tesla still leads the way for all the hype the expensive Porsche and Audi cannot beat a model 3 even at a 350KW Ionity charger.



UD

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Comparing ICE fueling to EV charging misses the point.


The 3 items that are preventing widespread adoption of EV's.

1 Range
2 Cost
3 Charge Time

Consumers know when something good arrives, we consumers are pro's at that. The comparison addresses item #3. It's also why EV's won't work for me, as I'm on the road constantly and any car I have can't be charged at a home garage.

1.6 minutes gets me 600 miles highway range in an Altima.

 

[JeffKeryk]

EVs as mass production cars are in their infancy.
They are not for everybody; I happen to be at a place in my life and where I live that is a good fit.

In 20 years our futuristic Model 3 that charges in the garage in a house with solar and lots of sun will look like, maybe a flat head Ford.
Maybe ICE cars will be at 100 mpg with 0w0 oil and serviced every 50K miles. Who knows?

 

[JeffKeryk]

In our car, If I were going 400 miles:
I would start my trip with zero fueling time because I charge at home.
Sometime around 200 to 250 miles I would need to charge.
Stop at a V2 Supercharger and charge for 30 to 50 minutes and contunue on.

If my car was a long range, it would be possible to make the trip with a 20 minute charge.
Not far off as compared to an ICE sedan in total fueling time.
This is, of course, in close to optimal conditions. Stuff happens.

Either way, the fuel cost is higher in an ICE car.

In my life, I would rather fly most of the time.
Again, it depends on your needs.

 

[Rand]

I would really like one as a second commuter car..
ended up with a 2020 elantra that gets 40mpg+ and 16k pricetag--with sunroof, heated seats, emergency braking, blind spot etc.

Batteries need to be well under $100/kwh for adoption of the masses.. among other issues.

I looked at some hybrids but mid $20000's for 5-10mpg... thats alot of gas.

 

[Vikas]

We need at least 10,000 MPH charger; about 72 seconds for 200 miles; in and out of the charging station before you can even unzip your fly.

Replace the underground tank with a huge super capacitor and then we are talking.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Vikas, these cars are fun. Anybody's guess what cool insanity, or not, Elon will do next...
The fun alone is worth the price of admission.

 

[Vikas]

The only time I have had it hooked up to a super charger was just to make sure I could do it. I also them realized how bad I am at backing the car in to a super charger spot. Why can't Elon add "auto park in to SC stall" feature instead of adding yet another [censored] sound?

 

[javacontour]

I wonder how many will complain they left their car on the charger for over an hour, but didn't get 1000 miles of range...

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

Either way, the fuel cost is higher in an ICE car.


Some Volt owners with expensive elec power rates claim that cost per mile is higher using the battery than using gas. It really depends on the cost of each, does it not?

However:
Best case: EV efficiency is 29% from natural gas feed to wheel. Meaning it uses more BTU's per mile when powered by the best fuel burning powerplant, vs today's hybrids which are 36% efficient. Hybrids consume about 20% fewer BTU's per mile when each is powered by fuel.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

Either way, the fuel cost is higher in an ICE car.


Some Volt owners with expensive elec power rates claim that cost per mile is higher using the battery than using gas. It really depends on the cost of each, does it not?

However:
Best case: EV efficiency is 29% from natural gas feed to wheel. Meaning it uses more BTU's per mile when powered by the best fuel burning powerplant, vs today's hybrids which are 36% efficient. Hybrids consume about 20% fewer BTU's per mile when each is powered by fuel.

Cujet, I was comparing a trip I would make, just as you comapre your 600 mile trip.
Totally agree each use case is different.
Personally, I consider Teslas toys primarily due to their costs. No one needs a Tesla. Or a Porsche, Vette, BMW, etc.
Heck, look at the price of a maxed out Pickup nowadays. Crazy. My old Tundra works for me...
All good.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

Either way, the fuel cost is higher in an ICE car.


Some Volt owners with expensive elec power rates claim that cost per mile is higher using the battery than using gas. It really depends on the cost of each, does it not?

However:
Best case: EV efficiency is 29% from natural gas feed to wheel. Meaning it uses more BTU's per mile when powered by the best fuel burning powerplant, vs today's hybrids which are 36% efficient. Hybrids consume about 20% fewer BTU's per mile when each is powered by fuel.



What is the source of the 29% number using natural gas?

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

According to the EPA the EV# is 59-62% from grid to wheels double the number you are quoting.



UD

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

Either way, the fuel cost is higher in an ICE car.


Some Volt owners with expensive elec power rates claim that cost per mile is higher using the battery than using gas. It really depends on the cost of each, does it not?

However:
Best case: EV efficiency is 29% from natural gas feed to wheel. Meaning it uses more BTU's per mile when powered by the best fuel burning powerplant, vs today's hybrids which are 36% efficient. Hybrids consume about 20% fewer BTU's per mile when each is powered by fuel.



What is the source of the 29% number using natural gas?

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

According to the EPA the EV# is 59-62% from grid to wheels double the number you are quoting.



UD


The EPA number does not take into account the efficiency of the power generation. That varies by power plant type. The average efficiency of U.S. natural gas plants is 45%. Coal is 37%.

The overall efficiency for an EV powered by natural gas would be 26.6-27.9% and 21.8-22.9% for coal.

Ed