I See Better @ Night w/ Halogen Beams than HID/LED

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Originally Posted by Skippy722

9011 and 9012 are HIR bulbs. 9011 replaces 9005, 9012 replaces 9006. This link shows how to trim them to fit, though some (my 300 for instance) don't require any trimming.


Can you get H11's or H9's as HIR?


You can replace an H11 with an H9.... and I forgot to post the link, I'm sorry!

https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/fo...ns/1409801-ryan-s-guide-to-halogen-bulbs

 

[JHZR2]

Much is in the lens. That said, I do see your point somewhat, OP. My BMW HIDs are fine in dry conditions, but not great in wet for whatever reason, and they do have projectors.

 

[Killer223]

i believe the military did a test about all this several decades ago. that's why most older military had very dim yellow lights, you could see better in the dust, rain, or snow. that one of the reasons cars were made to use 4000-4500K lights. only recently has the HID and LED color range of 5K and up been popular. looks brighter, but the light doesn't cast as far either, and the night blindness is much worse with the higher temp lights.
as for yellow or colder lights offering you better vision. there is a big reason most of the Baja racers have switched to yellow or amber lights, it doesn't reflect off the dust as bad and still lights the way for the racers.
for me the color range of 5000K and up is useless i can't see the sides of the road as well. and the bloody street signs are so [censored] bright it's almost blinding.
i wish my accord could have cooler 4300K lights.
all my others are halogen. and i like them.
its not even so much beam patters, as it is color range and ruining your night vision. with the whiter lights it takes longer to look off the side of the road where it's darker, adjust to see what's there and back to the road. try the same drive with cooler lights you'll see what i'm talking about.

 

[nthach]

My parent's 05 LS430 with AFS-equipped Bi-Xenon headlamps(AFS means the headlamp's projectors will swing in the direction the car is turning, which is 5 degrees to the left and 15 degrees to the right, the projectors are mounted in a gimbal). Even with the stock Koito or Philips 4300K D2S bulbs the lights have a very sharp Euro cutoff and a long beam. I can see the road at night and the lights go farther.

The Prius, OTOH uses reflector-based Bi-Xenon headlamps with D4R bulbs. They are marginally better than halogen, whiter light a little better coverage and cutoff but not really the right way of doing it. Yes, these are stock.

 

[AZjeff]

I just went from 9005 to 9011 HIR in the RAV hi beams and the difference in output is noticeable. The common well known conversions are, 9005 to 9011, 9006 to 9012. H11 to H9 is another conversion but not sure if the H9 is HIR or just more wattage.

Here's an article by Daniel Stern about yellow light vs blue light: Daniel Stern

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
Form vs function. White light is in, modern, expensive looking. Do a bit of searching and you find that yellow is easier for our brain to process than white (more blue). Your motorcycle observations make perfect sense.

Might be a reason for yellow fog lights.



Great points ^^^^

I believe yellow is necessary in a way because it is part of the naturally occurring color spectrum that our eyes use a lot more than white.

 

[LoneRanger]

Yes, the straight ahead cutoff on her GMC's HID's is pretty absolute, if that means it's Euro I'm not sure. But if you're approaching an uphill grade of any sort, there is a moment where right before you enter it the distance of the light is greatly reduced and you have to activate high beams to restore the same distance of light throw that existed when the road was flat. I don't like that. I know a reflector setup has the same problem with uphill approaches, but it's not as dramatic. With the sharp cutoff of the projectors on this car, it's like a bright line between light and completely dark, nothing gradual about it. With reflector lens at least if there's something in the roadway you get a dim image that fades-in and becomes more visible sequentially.

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
. But if you're approaching an uphill grade of any sort, there is a moment where right before you enter it the distance of the light is greatly reduced and you have to activate high beams to restore the same distance of light throw


This situation is exactly what happened in May on my dark morning commute so I didn't see the deer as soon as I should have ..... would have missed her to the left if she didn't do a 180 Axel move and jump back in front of me....

You also can't see street signs at night, close enough to read no light spill to light up. Not a fan of the sharp cutoff.

 

[wag123]

For the eyes of this old man, I like halogens better, and I REALLY like the Toshiba HIR bulbs that I installed years ago. Their output, color temp, and lifespan have been outstanding. Unfortunately, since Toshiba stopped manufacturing them, I don't know if any of the HIR bulbs that are on the market now (like Phillips, Osram, and Vosla) are actually HIR bulbs. If I install one of the new ones I will know immediately.
The picture that cujet posted shows the Toshiba HIR on the right, the bulb is globe shaped and you can see the IR reflective coating INSIDE the glass. All of the "new" HIR bulbs being sold now are cylinder shaped, like the bulb on the left. Beware of the Chinese knock-offs (commonly sold as ACDelco or Lexus parts) that LOOK like Toshiba HIR bulbs, they are not the real deal. They are globe shaped but they don't have the IR reflective coating inside the glass.

 

[Dave_Mark]

Originally Posted by wag123
For the eyes of this old man, I like halogens better, and I REALLY like the Toshiba HIR bulbs that I installed years ago. Their output, color temp, and lifespan have been outstanding. Unfortunately, since Toshiba stopped manufacturing them, I don't know if any of the HIR bulbs that are on the market now (like Phillips, Osram, and Vosla) are actually HIR bulbs.


1) The Toshiba HIR bulb is back. https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-90981-13066-Genuine-Bulb/dp/B00E4SEHD0

2) Some Sylvania-branded HIR1/9011 bulbs have the IRR coating.

3) Some Osram-branded HIR1/9011 bulbs have the IRR coating.

 

[eljefino]

Agree with most. Street signs have a UV-something in their reflective coating that really "pops" but is designed for the meager UV from halogen lights. Something more blue makes them ridiculously bright.

Hate what my wife's prius projectors must be doing to head-on traffic when "the line" hits them on rolling hills. Sorry, guys. Maybe in a few years when the lens is cloudy it'll be a softer transition.

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted by Huie83
I agree, LED's, HID's and projectors etc produce whiter light that goes further. When I drive my GF's Rav 4 with HID's I can definitely see better than the halogens in my Golf.

However what gets me is other drivers with HID's, LED's etc also blind the heck out of me at night so my vision is impaired VS drivers with halogens which I can tolerate fine. I do have sensitive eyes but I've been driving for 22 years now now and this wasn't an issue until more vehicles with brighter/more dense lights came out.


The funny thing is, that RAV 4 that you can see very well driving at night would also likely be one of those cars that would blind the heck out of you at night coming towards you. Lighting, like everything else, is a compromise. Putting more light further down the road means an earlier onset of glare for oncoming drivers. Hence the distinction between low beams and high beams, and clever trickery like adaptive driving beams. But it's never going to be perfect.

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
I'm not trying to be a luddite, although it would be easy to make that judgment if only skimming the above. I like the "look" of LED's and HID's better. Bright and clean. Modern. Stylish and cool for sure. When we were looking for her a new vehicle, a requirement was HID or LED headlights, because I felt like buying halogen in 2019 was a step backward or at best, not a step forward. I had my motorcycle experience with LED vs halogen as a guide but at the time chalked that up to bike headlights are different.

Short version: My eyes are more comfortable with halogen headlights at night than HID's, and I feel like I see better that way.


I have LED lights at home that have a color temperature of around 3000-3500K so they look exactly like the output of tungsten filament bulbs (I don't know about the color rendering indexes). So it's certainly possible to make LED's for automotive applications look like halogens, but I suspect there's not much impetus to do so exactly for those reasons you stated - the 'look' of high color temperature LED's is more modern and stylish and cool and that's what buyers want.

 

[repairman54]

My old eyes prefer 43 -45k range. My observation is that Brown's like trees and bushes absorb the 5000k and up light more readily thus less reflect back light to my eyes

 

[code5coupe]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger

Short version: My eyes are more comfortable with halogen headlights at night than HID's, and I feel like I see better that way.


I know what you are saying.
Mine are much more comfortable with Halogens than with LED's. I seem to be able to pick out details better with the Halogens.

 

[4WD]

I adjust my RH light towards the shoulder.
It will bother other drivers less - and I can watch the RH edge of the road when one of the aftermarket flamethrowers comes towards me.
(and see deer as well).

 

[MCompact]

I installed Hella E Codes with Osram Night Breakers H4 bulbs in the Wrangler; they are the only halogens headlights I like just about as well as the HIDs in the M235i and X1.