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Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 #5288922 12/08/19 10:18 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,238
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dustyroads Offline OP
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My last OCI was about 13k miles and it looked pretty good. This OCI was only 10.2k miles but the engine was worked hard for many more of the miles. It's a heavy truck (for a half ton) and is loaded heavy or pulling heavy loads more often than in the past.

Some of the elements (silicon, sodium and potassium) will make you think that I have them transposed... they're not, I have them correctly posted. The fuel is not a mistake either. My previous OCIs have been 2.5 - 2.9 % fuel and this one is even more. I'm wondering if I have a bad injector or two that are dumping fuel into their cylinders.

2013 F150 5.0 V8
119997 miles

This OCI:
10216 miles
389 hours
634 gallons of fuel burned
Oil added: just 6 ounces at about 9k miles into the OCI

UOA / VOA

Copper 4 / 0
Iron 15 / 1
Chromium 1 / 0
Aluminum 4 / 0
Lead 0 / 0
Tin 0 / 0

Silicon 7 / 9
Sodium 3 / 4
Potassium 1 / 8

Boron 16 / 60
Moly 67 / 72

Nickel 0 / 0
Silver 0 / 0

Titanium 10 / 10
Calcium 674 / 692
Magnesium 1210 / 1498
Zinc 776 / 814
Phosphorus 548 / 689
Barium 0 / 0

Oxidation 30 / 10
Nitration 16 / 5
Sulfation 35 / 15

Water N / N
Antifreeze N / N

% fuel content 3.78 / 0

Visc @100°C 11.3 / 10.3

TAN 4.85 / 2.32
TBN 2.2 / 9.6

PQI 8
Particle Quantifying Index


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #5288971 12/08/19 11:36 PM
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Talent_Keyhole Offline
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Fuel dilution and combustion by-products has started to breakdown the oil, lowering viscosity earlier and now it appears to be increasing in viscosity as it progresses as shown in oxidation.

My own oil analysis show significant drop in Boron in GDI engines. I typically see 80-90% drop with high fuel dilution. Boron must be working to counter the affects of dilution.

Silicon, Sodium are consistent. The small change is well within the normal repeatibility, reproducibility margins.

If you are concerned about fuel dilution, perform a analysis at each 2500 mile intervals, and compare with wear rates, viscosity, TBN at each point. You may likely see a change in wear rate and percentage of fuel dilution. On the otherhand, it may reach a point of dilution and stabilize.

Last edited by Talent_Keyhole; 12/08/19 11:37 PM.
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5289052 12/09/19 05:02 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Where is the boron going if it is no longer in the oil? Out the tailpipe? Or are you transmuting they element?


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #5289083 12/09/19 07:15 AM
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tcp71 Offline
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I don’t think a 2013 5.0 is direct injection. That started in 2017.


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: PP 5w30 syn. (varies)
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #5289095 12/09/19 07:31 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,413
dnewton3 Offline
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The wear rates are fine; nothing to be concerned about.
The fuel would concern me. Track it over the next few OCIs. It's probably a bad injector. (No DI on this first gen Coy motors).


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #5289155 12/09/19 08:57 AM
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jimbrewer Offline
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What brand of oil?


3.7L Ford
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: kschachn] #5289177 12/09/19 09:30 AM
Joined: May 2019
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Where is the boron going if it is no longer in the oil? Out the tailpipe? Or are you transmuting they element?

Boron's alkaline right, so could it be depleted by acids???

Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5289181 12/09/19 09:36 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Well an element never gets "depleted" in terms of being able to be detected by ICP, sure the specific compound may be altered but all the constituent atoms are still there. Either they are being physically removed from the sample or transmutation is occurring -which I'll bet my life isn't happening in an ICE.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: kschachn] #5289235 12/09/19 10:39 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Well an element never gets "depleted" in terms of being able to be detected by ICP, sure the specific compound may be altered but all the constituent atoms are still there. Either they are being physically removed from the sample or transmutation is occurring -which I'll bet my life isn't happening in an ICE.

You obviously know more about that stuff than i do. So we're back to your original question... where'd the boron go?

Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5289272 12/09/19 11:18 AM
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paoester Offline
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
You obviously know more about that stuff than i do. So we're back to your original question... where'd the boron go?
Cylinder walls, combustion, out the exhaust.
Boron compounds are known to do this. Without knowing which boron-based compounds are present, and without years of lab research to investigate it, I don't have any idea why boron disappears.

Its not alchemy, or transmutation, or The Carbonaro Effect, as far as I know.

Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #5289278 12/09/19 11:27 AM
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Triple_Se7en Online Content
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Calcium 674 / 692
Magnesium 1210 / 1498
Castrol Edge is the only one that offers a recipe like that.

I thought Titanium was around 30 on another VOA. Yours lists 10. Maybe I'm mistaken on that.

I like Castrol and Valvoline these days...... (SN Plus / Dexos 1 Gen2 brews in 5w30


Keep Your Pistons, Valves & Injectors Clean

19' Hyundai SantaFe 2.4 GDI
20' Kia Soul XLine 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 / Mobil1 Filters
04' Chevy Colorado Napa Syn 0w20 and K&N



Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: paoester] #5289294 12/09/19 11:39 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
You obviously know more about that stuff than i do. So we're back to your original question... where'd the boron go?
Cylinder walls, combustion, out the exhaust.
Boron compounds are known to do this. Without knowing which boron-based compounds are present, and without years of lab research to investigate it, I don't have any idea why boron disappears.

Its not alchemy, or transmutation, or The Carbonaro Effect, as far as I know.

Just the boron? That doesn't make sense.

People on here in the past have speculated about "boron depletion" but one member contacted Valvoline and they said it does not occur. I have seen some articles that indicate that measuring boron levels by elemental analysis is more complex than other elements due to potential leaching from borosilicate glassware and "retention" in the ICP apparatus. I have an easier time believing than unfounded speculation here.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: dustyroads] #5289417 12/09/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,184
BeerCan Offline
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I have a vehicle that seems to eat boron as well. Never really thought about it but now I am curious.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...miles-valvoline-premium-blue#Post5272008


2020 Porsche Cayenne
2017 Ford F250 6.7 PS
2016 Ford F150 3.5 EB
2016 Porsche 981 GTS
2015 Ford Mustang 2.3 EB
My car list is getting long smile
1994 Porsche 968 Coupe
1987 Porsche 944 Turbo
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: kschachn] #5289494 12/09/19 04:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 14,776
53' Stude Online Content
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Well an element never gets "depleted" in terms of being able to be detected by ICP, sure the specific compound may be altered but all the constituent atoms are still there. Either they are being physically removed from the sample or transmutation is occurring -which I'll bet my life isn't happening in an ICE.



Thank You for the information sir smile


2009 Toyota Camry LE

161,669 miles

Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic 5w20 Dexos 1 Gen 2 SN+
Fram tough guard 4386 filter
Re: Edge 5W-30 10k miles '13 F150 5.0 [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5289995 12/10/19 04:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,896
dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Fuel dilution and combustion by-products has started to breakdown the oil, lowering viscosity earlier and now it appears to be increasing in viscosity as it progresses as shown in oxidation.

My own oil analysis show significant drop in Boron in GDI engines. I typically see 80-90% drop with high fuel dilution. Boron must be working to counter the affects of dilution.

Silicon, Sodium are consistent. The small change is well within the normal repeatibility, reproducibility margins.

If you are concerned about fuel dilution, perform a analysis at each 2500 mile intervals, and compare with wear rates, viscosity, TBN at each point. You may likely see a change in wear rate and percentage of fuel dilution. On the otherhand, it may reach a point of dilution and stabilize.



Boron doesn't drop as fuel dillution increases because it counters fuel dillution. If anything it decreases because there is less boron in gasoline compared to motor oil.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
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