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ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months #5287220 12/06/19 08:29 PM
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wrcsixeight Offline OP
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Started hearing the ugly dry start valvetrain rattle.

Unspun filter, and in 17 years of removing filters on this engine, as soon as it is loose, oil drips down the sides of the can from the passages above the filter. It's always the messiest part of an oil change.

This one today unscrewed dry, clean, not a drop spilled or dripped out, and looking inside of it, it was just over half filled. I could not have spilled a drop of used oil without upending the filter. Engine had not been started in 24+ hours.

I had prefilled the new Fram Ultra XG8A and clean oil stayed inbetween the threaded holes and the O ring seal, sealed against entry.
I poured some new oil in the same place on the used filter, and within a minute the oil level dropped by half and bubbles were coming from one of the inlet holes.

Last march I just drained the old oil and added new, leaving this "20K mile" filter in place, it had ~8k miles on it then.
I now regret that.

Not sure that I will get around to dissecting it anytime soon. Too busy
I cannot see any obvious issues with the ADBV through the inlet holes, It is as if there is just too little spring pressure pushing it tight against the inlet holes.

I had bought it through Amazon in October 2018. Legit looking.

20191206_113352.jpg20191206_113517.jpg20191206_114004.jpg
Last edited by M56959; 12/07/19 02:05 AM. Reason: Changed title and post to conform to filter forum rules.


Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: wrcsixeight] #5287301 12/06/19 10:14 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
Unspun filter, and in 17 years of removing filters on this engine, as soon as it is loose, oil drips down the sides of the can from the passages above the filter. It's always the messiest part of an oil change.

This one today unscrewed dry, clean, not a drop spilled or dripped out, and looking inside of it, it was just over half filled. I could not have spilled a drop of used oil without upending the filter. Engine had not been started in 24+ hours.


What is the mounting orientation of the filter?

When millions of filters are being made, there's always a chance of something going wrong during production, regardless of brand. You'll have to cut it open to see if anything is preventing the ADBV from sealing 100% on the base plate.

Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: wrcsixeight] #5287302 12/06/19 10:16 PM
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oldhp Online Content
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How is this filter mounted? Is the threaded end up? Lay on it's side? At a angle? If mounted threads up, I don't see how a filter can drain itself down. Any other way yes, it can drain down to a self leveling point that matches the oil passages in the engine. Not trying to start an argument here, I've just never seen it.
The ADBV could've been cut on assembly.
Anything man made is subject to being messed up.

Last edited by oldhp; 12/06/19 10:33 PM.

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Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: wrcsixeight] #5287308 12/06/19 10:28 PM
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Had the same thing happen with a Fram Ultra 4967 on the lady's 2.2L 98 Camry.. Normally oil comes out when loosening the filter... This has the base end faced down towards the motor... And when I unscrewed that Fram Ultra is was bone dry... Zero oil came out. Other filters have had oil come out and I have had to use a paper towel to clean up the front side of the motor.


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Cam2 SuperproMax 5w30 Carquest r84356 Oil filter
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Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: bbhero] #5287315 12/06/19 10:38 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by bbhero
Other filters have had oil come out and I have had to use a paper towel to clean up the front side of the motor.


There's a trick I use to to prevent that on my Tacoma. wink

Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: oldhp] #5287317 12/06/19 10:41 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by oldhp
How is this filter mounted? Is the threaded end up? Lay on it's side? At a angle? If mounted threads up, I don't see how a filter can drain itself down.


I asked the same, wondering what the orientation was. If it's vertical with base up, then proves that an ADBV is also important with that mounting orientation, which has been argued for years around here, lol.

Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: ZeeOSix] #5287322 12/06/19 10:50 PM
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4WD Offline
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When I pull my (base up) PF63E’s it takes a quart of oil to replace the loss. Can’t see that little can holding more than 1/3 so even in that position the nitrile ADBV is holding the long side of the U tube hydrostatic pressure.

Nitrile can come in various qualities and I’m thinking the same applies to silicone.

Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: 4WD] #5287330 12/06/19 11:01 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by 4WD
Nitrile can come in various qualities and I’m thinking the same applies to silicone.


Could be ... but the silicone ADBVs I've looked at after cutting open Ultras seems to be very pliable, and show no signs of defects or degradation.

Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: wrcsixeight] #5287352 12/06/19 11:54 PM
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Does the ADBV allow air out the inlet holes if you blow into the outlet hole?


2011 Toyota Prius now at 109K
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Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: ZeeOSix] #5287354 12/06/19 11:55 PM
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bbhero Online Content
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Other filters have had oil come out and I have had to use a paper towel to clean up the front side of the motor.


There's a trick I use to to prevent that on my Tacoma. wink



Yeah I think it is to put a hole in the top of the filter... If I am not mistaken.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Cam2 SuperproMax 5w30 Carquest r84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: bbhero] #5287357 12/07/19 12:10 AM
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4WD Offline
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So you have been under cars with a drill ? 👀

Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: 4WD] #5287361 12/07/19 12:29 AM
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bbhero Online Content
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Originally Posted by 4WD
So you have been under cars with a drill ? 👀



Ahh no Capt LOL

I do not own a drill... And anyhow the filter is accessible from opening the hood.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Cam2 SuperproMax 5w30 Carquest r84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: wrcsixeight] #5287362 12/07/19 12:36 AM
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First I will state that I am not a detractor of Fram, especially the Ultra. I simply don’t pick them out of a lineup when it’s time to buy a filter. I actually considered trying one out on my XTerra, simply to use one of the most controversial filters ever made and see how it goes for me personally. I’m sure the experience will be mind numbingly average and uneventful.

I will however state that I have cut a lot of filters open, and I have observed some things that I consider to be factual;
All silicone anti-drainback valves are not created equal. This seems to be a simplistic, obvious statement, but worthy of discussion. Fram’s valve, while it is silicone, (and seemingly the same valve across their entire lineup of filters) is a simple flap. There is no rigidity or support. It is allowed to flex down to the filter element and nearly invert itself while oil is flowing under normal operation. As a contrary example, Ford Motorcraft, Wix, and Champ built premium filters such as K&N Gold, Mobil 1 or Royal Purple have molded in “fingers” or “tabs” on the element side of the valve to prevent what I would assume to be a form of hyper extension while oil flows by, therefore limiting the amount of “backbend” the anti drainback valve must endure. This, I would think would limit fatigue. I have at least one of these ADBV’s on the shelf and will gladly supply a picture illustrating these tabs if I must. One more observation I have made is that Ford Motorcraft and Ford Racing Filter ADBV’s are labeled FOMOCO. So Ford has the rights and possibly a patent on their ADBV design. Most others I have seen are labeled “Parker”. That is all, nothing more than observation.


image.jpg
The brand...

image.jpg
The tabs.

Last edited by 69Torino; 12/07/19 12:43 AM.

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Re: ADBV Failure FRAM ULTRA XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: bbhero] #5287374 12/07/19 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by bbhero
Other filters have had oil come out and I have had to use a paper towel to clean up the front side of the motor.


There's a trick I use to to prevent that on my Tacoma. wink



Yeah I think it is to put a hole in the top of the filter... If I am not mistaken.



Gallon ziploc freezer bag, loosen the filter a tad, place bag over it, continue unscrewing until filter falls in bag.

Re: ADBV Failure FU XG-8A ,10K miles 13 months [Re: 69Torino] #5287381 12/07/19 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 69Torino
I actually considered trying one out on my XTerra, simply to use one of the most controversial filters ever made and see how it goes for me personally. I’m sure the experience will be mind numbingly average and uneventful.

I will however state that I have cut a lot of filters open, and I have observed some things that I consider to be factual;
All silicone anti-drainback valves are not created equal. This seems to be a simplistic, obvious statement, but worthy of discussion. Fram’s valve, while it is silicone, (and seemingly the same valve across their entire lineup of filters) is a simple flap. There is no rigidity or support. It is allowed to flex down to the filter element and nearly invert itself while oil is flowing under normal operation.


Don't know what's so controversial about it, lol.

As far as the ADBV goes, yes it doesn't have "tabs" to make it more rigid, so it's pretty flexible. But there is no way it could ever "invert itself" from bending back. I had a recently cut Ultra (XG3600) and just tested the ADBV flex all the way to it touching the end cap, and it would never "invert" ... it always snaps back to the closed position. Being flexible and opening all the way back to the end cap ensures all base holes are fully open for oil flow, and it opens easier than a stiffer valve in cold weather.

Every Ultra I've used passes the "backwards air blow test" before installation. When was the last time anyone here has seen a "fatigued" (cracked/torn) silicone ADBV from bending back and forth too much on any brand of filter?

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