More news on the Ford Transmission Issues

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Originally Posted by domer10
I just will never understand who in their engineering brilliance thought a "dry" clutch for a every day application vehicle.

If companies allowed engineers free reign to design top quality, long-lasting products, no one could afford them !
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by domer10
I just will never understand who in their engineering brilliance thought a "dry" clutch for a every day application vehicle.

If companies allowed engineers free reign to design top quality, long-lasting products, no one could afford them !



A lot of you are misunderstanding this, I should of said I do not understand how the company and/or engineers thought this would be a good idea, especially in a place or part that requires so much friction. This backfired on everyone who green lit this project.
 
Originally Posted by paoester
Ford messed up here, but don't count them out just yet.
The good they do: F-150 sold by the zillions, Mustangs are nice, new Mustang E looks promising, they build most police SUVs, etc., they are a basically cool company.


Ford wouldn't dare put a DCT in any of those
mad.gif
 
Originally Posted by tig1
It's my understanding some of the Euro trans are dry clutch as well.


Nope most were wet clutch, that's why there were almost no issues at all.

Dearborn decided to pinch pennies on the already excellent Cologne design and thus the fiasco we have now. Dearborn has been doing this since some German Ford models started being imported to the USA and Canada. I believe at least part of the reason was a form of internal rivalry and done to sabotage the superior German designed and manufactured
Ford. Dearborn did the same thing to the early Capri, Fiesta MKI, also the Sierra(XR4Ti) and (Granada) Scorpio along with the MK 3 Focus, Mondeo (Contour) and the last US spec Fiesta and Focus.
 
While it wasn't really killing anyone, Ford should have learned about being cheapskates in the short run from their Pinto days.

I have no respect for Ford. Some say the same about GM for political reasons. I say that about Ford because they don't fix their piece of crap designs. Or if they do it takes them forever to do it. (GM too, look at their ignition switches).
 
I bought a 2016 Focus for my wife's 1,000 mile per week commuting. Great car but the transmission was total junk. Total junk! Clutch chatter so bad I thought it would break the engine mounts. And at times it would go into neutral before upshifting into a higher gear. Not only was the transmission total junk, it made the car dangerous.

Scott
 
It is Ford... what else is new. 6.0... 6.4... 5.4... DPS6... millions of critically flawed vehicles sold to consumers.
 
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Just before reading this thread I was reading this news story....seems there are systemic problems at Ford and there's a level sneakiness that is disturbing.

https://carbuzz.com/news/angry-ford...edium=referral&utm_source=apple.news




That is really bogus on the part of Ford.

I thought the aluminium was used on the box? The article makes it sound as though the entire truck body is aluminium.
 
Mom's 1991 Ford Taurus GL had the bad transmission (which was repaired after waiting for a replacement as the demand was immense)

All the AW55-50 series transmissions all over the world were great units EXCEPT for the ones Ford "reprogrammed" to allow the "Stop-Neutral" feature which caused huge problems.

They like to mess with and lie about transmissions. They have an evil transmission elf in the idea workshop.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by tig1
It's my understanding some of the Euro trans are dry clutch as well.


Nope most were wet clutch, that's why there were almost no issues at all.



Not true. Our smaller engine'd cars specified with PowerShift boxes are dry cluch (1.0 Ecoboost & 1.6TI-VCT etc).

Thing is, we mainly buy manuals in Europe so the PowerShifts are few and far between anyway.
 
For all who don't like transmissions, and who can blame you, get an electric car, or even a hybrid with a no-clutch, no-torque-convertor design as almost all are. That monstrosity that has plagued mankind is gone with those.

Originally Posted by PimTac
The article makes it sound as though the entire truck body is aluminium.
The F-150 is all aluminum except for the steel ladder frame & a few small select parts. A lot. Cab, hood, fenders, .... equivalent to 20 thousand beer cans.
 
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
While the UAW has many problems, they are not to blame for the quality of cars. In fact, Toyota had a UAW factory (in California!), where they produced cars that are just as good as their Japanese-made counterparts.
Not exactly.
Yes, Toyota's GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont California was UAW, but the quality was NOT "just as good" as their Japanese-made counterparts. In fact, when GM went bankrupt and the partnership was voided/dissolved, Toyota was offered the plant on it's own and they declined stating that the NUMMI plant was its worst in terms of quality, productivity, absenteeism and worker safety among ALL of Toyota's plants. They decided to shut it down. GM had shut production down at the plant several years earlier for the same reasons. In 2010 after production ceased at NUMMI, Toyota was hit with the largely bogus sudden unintended acceleration debacle, some insiders claim that the whole smear campaign was orchestrated by the UAW as punishment for closing the plant and it's members losing their jobs.
That plant is now occupied by Tesla and is currently a non-union plant, but the UAW has been trying to organise it's workers. There have been legal battles regarding Tesla's union busting practices, culminating in a recent court ruling that paves the way for Tesla workers to organise. California is NOT a right-to-work state so if a union vote wins, ALL of the workers will have to be dues-paying union members. Elon Musk is so vehemently anti-union that I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he moved production out of there if the plant unionized.
BTW, I am NOT an anti-union person (I have been a union member myself), but IMO the one big problem that unions have is the protection of bad/unproductive workers, making it very difficult for companies to get rid of them. I saw this with my own two eyes.
 
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
While the UAW has many problems, they are not to blame for the quality of cars. In fact, Toyota had a UAW factory (in California!), where they produced cars that are just as good as their Japanese-made counterparts.
Not exactly.
Yes, Toyota's GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont California was UAW, but the quality was NOT "just as good" as their Japanese-made counterparts. In fact, when GM went bankrupt and the partnership was voided/dissolved, Toyota was offered the plant on it's own and they declined stating that the NUMMI plant was its worst in terms of quality, productivity, absenteeism and worker safety among ALL of Toyota's plants. They decided to shut it down. In 2010 after production ceased at NUMMI, Toyota was hit with the largely bogus sudden unintended acceleration debacle, some insiders claim that the whole smear campaign was orchestrated by the UAW as punishment for closing the plant and it's members losing their jobs.
That plant is now occupied by Tesla and is currently a non-union plant, but the UAW has been trying to organise it's workers. There have been legal battles regarding Tesla's union busting practices, culminating in a recent court ruling that paves the way for Tesla workers to organise. California is NOT a right-to-work state so if a union vote wins, ALL of the workers will have to be dues-paying union members. Elon Musk is so vehemently anti-union that I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he moved production out of there if the plant unionized.
BTW, I am NOT an anti-union person (I have been a union member myself), but IMO the one big problem that unions have is the protection of bad/unproductive workers, making it very difficult for companies to get rid of them. I saw this with my own two eyes.





I agree. I have read the reports and stories about rampant drug and alcohol use at NUMMI plus adding in the absentee rate and morale. Toyota couldn't get out of there fast enough.
 
This isn't new story at all. Phoebe Wall Howard has milked this story for all it's worth and then some. Look, in 2013 this was starting to become a known issue. Ford could have fixed it but doubled down on their stupidity for the Focus refresh. I told people the only good Focus's had manual transmissions. It's a shame because it was pretty decent low cost car (minus the dct).
 
The legacy costs that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have to pay is unbelievable. Its no wonder they turn out some of the products they do. They have to make it for less and sell it for comparable prices in order to stay in business and pay 3 generations of retired UAW workers.
 
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
While the UAW has many problems, they are not to blame for the quality of cars. In fact, Toyota had a UAW factory (in California!), where they produced cars that are just as good as their Japanese-made counterparts.
Not exactly.
Yes, Toyota's GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont California was UAW, but the quality was NOT "just as good" as their Japanese-made counterparts. In fact, when GM went bankrupt and the partnership was voided/dissolved, Toyota was offered the plant on it's own and they declined stating that the NUMMI plant was its worst in terms of quality, productivity, absenteeism and worker safety among ALL of Toyota's plants. They decided to shut it down. GM had shut production down at the plant several years earlier for the same reasons. In 2010 after production ceased at NUMMI, Toyota was hit with the largely bogus sudden unintended acceleration debacle, some insiders claim that the whole smear campaign was orchestrated by the UAW as punishment for closing the plant and it's members losing their jobs.
That plant is now occupied by Tesla and is currently a non-union plant, but the UAW has been trying to organise it's workers. There have been legal battles regarding Tesla's union busting practices, culminating in a recent court ruling that paves the way for Tesla workers to organise. California is NOT a right-to-work state so if a union vote wins, ALL of the workers will have to be dues-paying union members. Elon Musk is so vehemently anti-union that I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he moved production out of there if the plant unionized.
BTW, I am NOT an anti-union person (I have been a union member myself), but IMO the one big problem that unions have is the protection of bad/unproductive workers, making it very difficult for companies to get rid of them. I saw this with my own two eyes.

Actually, the NUMMI built Corollas and Pickups were found to be better than their Japanese counterparts. Toyota did a study and concluded the Japanese manufacturing system coupled with the American worker ingenuity was producing better cars. In fact, NUMMI was the only Toyota plant to achieve a zero defect audit. NUMMI's defect rate constantly ranked with the best in the world.
I toured NUMMI twice. I have owned 4 cars built in Fremont: 1965 Olds 4-4-2, 2 pickups and our Model 3.
Toyota's official close reason was "economic feasibility", which occured shortly after GM pulled out. I don't think NUMMI ever produced a profit, not sure...
Remember Toyota was a much smaller company at the time. NUMMI was theit 1st manufacturing venture in Morth America. Their NUMMI experience is cited as a reason they unseated GM as the largest car maker in the world.
I worked accross the freeway at Lam Research.
 
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