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Air crash of the past #5286633 12/06/19 06:34 AM
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Exhaustgases Offline OP
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This was sad. I like these planes but, this incident proves there can be some not so good mechanics working on aircraft, and some not so good engineering as well. I say with this example, what ever happened to redundancy for aircraft systems? There was no excuse for this to happen. I remember it on the news years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ewehd9b0_o
Yes its an animation but covers well what transpired on that flight. The poor passengers, just horrible. I didn't search this out, its something I just clicked on and watched.

Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5286657 12/06/19 07:28 AM
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JustN89 Offline
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Unfortunately, the knowledge that has led to the safety we enjoy in commercial aviation came at a high price. Those inside and close to the industry, and aviation in general, are familiar with the phrase that the "regulations are written in blood". Maintenance, record keeping, and system redundancies are no different. That's why SMS (Safety Management Systems) play such a crucial role today- we need to be anticipating hazards and risks instead of reacting to the consequences of those hazards and risks.

Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5286681 12/06/19 08:13 AM
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WylieCoyote Offline
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This is just the tip of the iceberg regarding maintenance-related negligence. This one killed a colleague, and seriously hurt two others, not to mention the passengers who perished on-scene and later on. I can't count how many times I served drinks and peanuts on this very plane. RIP Capt Gannaway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymsr0haPN4U


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Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5286770 12/06/19 10:15 AM
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SLO_Town Offline
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This was caused by Alaska Airlines having a tier 3 maintenance program. Tier 3 maintenance was a cost saving plan.

The video understates Capt. Thompson's heroic efforts. Although cleared to land at LAX, he chose to verify the plane's airworthiness by remaining over the ocean. He knew the risk of flying over a populated area was too large at that moment.

Scott


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Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5286775 12/06/19 10:26 AM
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edwardh1 Offline
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I dont like maintenance sent to foreign countries to save money


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Air crash of the past [Re: edwardh1] #5286787 12/06/19 10:41 AM
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SLO_Town Offline
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
I dont like maintenance sent to foreign countries to save money

Indeed. And it's not just "foreign" countries. It's third world countries!

Scott


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Re: Air crash of the past [Re: edwardh1] #5286836 12/06/19 11:43 AM
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madRiver Offline
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
I dont like maintenance sent to foreign countries to save money


However in this case good old USA maintenance was a complete fail.

Re: Air crash of the past [Re: madRiver] #5286856 12/06/19 12:15 PM
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JustN89 Offline
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Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by edwardh1
I dont like maintenance sent to foreign countries to save money


However in this case good old USA maintenance was a complete fail.

Not only that, but industry wide, there's a lot of maintenance done oversees today and we are enjoying possibly the safest time in aviation history.

Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5286887 12/06/19 12:50 PM
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Chris Meutsch Online Content
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The fact that a lack of grease on a jackscrew can take down a plane is horrifying.

I've studied this crash for a long time.


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Re: Air crash of the past [Re: JustN89] #5286896 12/06/19 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by edwardh1
I dont like maintenance sent to foreign countries to save money


However in this case good old USA maintenance was a complete fail.

Not only that, but industry wide, there's a lot of maintenance done oversees today and we are enjoying possibly the safest time in aviation history.

One of my good friends is a retired airline Captain from one of the major domestic airlines. About 15 years ago he was flying a 737 out of LAX. While he and the First Officer were doing their pre-flight stuff, they noticed a maintenance crew thrashing wildly on the starboard engine. The engine cowlings were open and wrenches were being turn fast and furious. He sent his first officer down to find out what was being done. He returned several minutes later and told my good friend (the Captain) that he couldn't get an answer because no one spoke English.

You'd have to know my friend to understand, but this was totally unacceptable to him and he went down there himself to get answers. Indeed, no one spoke English. Somehow he got them to get their supervisor to come over and discuss. Problem was the supervisor didn't speak English either! What did my airline Captain friend do? He refused to fly the plane and the flight was canceled. The maintenance union filed a grievance against him and my airline Captain friend was reprimanded.

Was he right or wrong?

Scott

PS As an aside, my friend was airborne during the 911 attacks. Without explanation they were ordered to land immediately, landing at a small airport in Oregon (not their destination). He said it was the most bizarre thing he ever experienced in his entire career. The flight crew was stuck there for 2 or 3 days IIRC.


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Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5286984 12/06/19 02:47 PM
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Kestas Offline
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Speaking of maintenance short cuts, that is what took down the DC-10 at O'Hare airport. An engine fell off the plane during takeoff because of short cuts the mechanics took to install the engine.

Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5287047 12/06/19 04:09 PM
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mk378 Offline
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Someone on the crew knew English. Any work done on an aircraft must be written up, in English.

Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5287215 12/06/19 08:15 PM
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I don’t troubleshoot in the air any more. Not since I have passengers counting on me and don’t have an ejection seat.

Fiddling with the trim and jackscrew ultimately caused the failure that caused the crash.

Something breaks: you get the airplane as safely configured as you can and then...

LEAVE IT ALONE.

Let the techs on the ground troubleshoot further.

This Captain failed by continuing to troubleshoot a broken and failing system.


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Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5287420 12/07/19 05:35 AM
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Exhaustgases Offline OP
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And just wow with some of the foreign mechanics, and here we have restrictive hours of supposed learning for A&P's, and most of them are not qualified to work on commercial planes at graduation, I've read many articles on the subject. If thats the case here can you imagine what it is in other country's?

In the link, the comments are interesting, one guy hit it right on. That jack screw problem started on the engineering drawing board. No way should that not have stops to prevent out of range motion, and not be able to be over ridden by the pilots control yoke. Then if it wasn't a stripped nut, what if it was a locked up gear case or burnt up electric motor, the same crash would have happened with that too if an extreme defection was involved. That whole deal is just plane bad engineering as well as a maintenance issue.

And that other link posted above flight 529, it was caused by a broken prop blade that was incorrectly fixed by the manufacture, so I just find it weird about the
AP requirements in the US and how even the manufacture can't do a job right. I think one of the main problems is the aviation mechanic deal is to broad spectrum,
There needs to be more specializing in aviation mechanics, its just too much mental overload to be capable of knowing everything there is about a modern plane.

Last edited by Exhaustgases; 12/07/19 06:03 AM.
Re: Air crash of the past [Re: Exhaustgases] #5287795 12/07/19 03:12 PM
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Too much P (Parker) -51 time .(Before the advent of the ball point, the Parker 51 ink pen was considered the Cadillac of fountain pens), thus the term used to "pencil whip" maintenance checks . In grade school, one or two kids had nice Parker 51 pens while the rest of us had second or third hand Esterbrooks.

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