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Not to beat a dead horse but... #5286516 12/05/19 10:22 PM
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MoPowa Offline OP
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Hello all, I have a few questions that I hope I can get some answers to. While I'm no stranger to fairly in-depth vehicle work(rebuilding engines, transmission work, engine swaps...), I am struggling quite a bit however to understand how the individual components of an oil add pack, noak, sap, and pretty much everything else fit together.

I recently stocked up on a fair bit of oil from AutoZone's clearance, much of it being euro oils. They're all SN rated, and also carry vw approvals (I am planning on putting a VW tdi in a Suzuki samurai or jeep in the very near future), so I figured I could put it to use in something.

The oils in question are:
Pennzoil platinum euro lx 0w-30
Pennzoil euro av 5w-30
Pennzoil platinum euro 0w-40
Pentosin pento super performance lll 5w-30

If I do put these in a gasser, it will be a Subaru legacy(ej253 engine).
The questions are:
1. Do I still need to be concerned about the sulphur level in fuels?
2. What are the main differences between these and why were there so many variations of euro oils(at least in Pennzoils case)
3. Are these suitable for the engine in question, in particular if I'm running this oil (over 5k oci's or longer) for at least 30k miles.

I understand that all of these questions have been asked in other threads, but as was mentioned earlier, I am struggling to understand the answers. I am asking not only to see if this will work in this particular application, but to further my own comprehension of motor oil. If someone would be patient enough to explain this to me like I was a 5 year old, I would be extremely grateful!

Thank you in advance!

Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: MoPowa] #5286588 12/06/19 03:49 AM
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weasley Offline
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Originally Posted by MoPowa
1. Do I still need to be concerned about the sulphur level in fuels?

No

Originally Posted by MoPowa
2. What are the main differences between these and why were there so many variations of euro oils(at least in Pennzoils case)

Pennzoil platinum euro lx 0w-30 = mid SAPS (0.8% max) high HTHS (3.5cP min) ACEA C3-type, typical of newer gasoline and diesel with DPF, extended drain.
Pennzoil euro av 5w-30 = mid-SAPS, high HTHS, ACEA C3-type but not long drain, as shown by only VW 502 00/505 00/505 01 specs (which is out-of-date now as you can't have 505 00 and 505 01 on the same oil) and not 504 00/507 00
Pennzoil platinum euro 0w-40 = full SAPS (1.0% max), high HTHS, ACEA A3/B4-type. Typical oil for older gasoline and diesel engines with no DPF, longer drain/severe service.
Pentosin pento super performance lll 5w-30 = mid-SAPS, high HTHS, ACEA C3-type, extended drain including VW 504 00/507 00, BMW LL04 and MB 229.51. Typical newer engine long drain Euro oil.

Originally Posted by MoPowa
3. Are these suitable for the engine in question, in particular if I'm running this oil (over 5k oci's or longer) for at least 30k miles.

I'd say that the Euro 0W-40 is probably your best bet of those, although they would probably all be OK.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
2011 KTM 990 SMT
Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: weasley] #5286688 12/06/19 08:25 AM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by weasley
Originally Posted by MoPowa
1. Do I still need to be concerned about the sulphur level in fuels?

No

Originally Posted by MoPowa
2. What are the main differences between these and why were there so many variations of euro oils(at least in Pennzoils case)

Pennzoil platinum euro lx 0w-30 = mid SAPS (0.8% max) high HTHS (3.5cP min) ACEA C3-type, typical of newer gasoline and diesel with DPF, extended drain.
Pennzoil euro av 5w-30 = mid-SAPS, high HTHS, ACEA C3-type but not long drain, as shown by only VW 502 00/505 00/505 01 specs (which is out-of-date now as you can't have 505 00 and 505 01 on the same oil) and not 504 00/507 00
Pennzoil platinum euro 0w-40 = full SAPS (1.0% max), high HTHS, ACEA A3/B4-type. Typical oil for older gasoline and diesel engines with no DPF, longer drain/severe service.
Pentosin pento super performance lll 5w-30 = mid-SAPS, high HTHS, ACEA C3-type, extended drain including VW 504 00/507 00, BMW LL04 and MB 229.51. Typical newer engine long drain Euro oil.

Originally Posted by MoPowa
3. Are these suitable for the engine in question, in particular if I'm running this oil (over 5k oci's or longer) for at least 30k miles.

I'd say that the Euro 0W-40 is probably your best bet of those, although they would probably all be OK.

As far as I remember this should be minimum.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (BMW TPT 5W30+OE filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: MoPowa] #5286768 12/06/19 10:13 AM
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Jimmy_Russells Offline
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All of those oils will be fine in USA for 8-10k OCI, no problem. Maybe slightly less in a Subaru.

Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: Jimmy_Russells] #5287522 12/07/19 08:24 AM
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Linctex Offline
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Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
All of those oils will be fine in USA for 8-10k OCI, no problem. Maybe slightly less in a Subaru.


YES, the gasoline sold in the USA is no longer "high sulphur"

I run euro-spec oils I got on clearance all the time


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: Linctex] #5287647 12/07/19 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
All of those oils will be fine in USA for 8-10k OCI, no problem. Maybe slightly less in a Subaru.


YES, the gasoline sold in the USA is no longer "high sulphur"

I run euro-spec oils I got on clearance all the time



It can be as high as 95ppm. How likely? Probably not much. Maybe someone can tell us how big of a problem running a tankful of higher sulfur gas will create.

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P100HVZV.PDF?Dockey=P100HVZV.PDF

Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: MoPowa] #5287803 12/07/19 03:21 PM
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MoPowa Offline OP
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Thank you guys so much for the answers! I really do appreciate it.

Not to keep pestering you all with questions, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around some points, in particular the data that weasly and edyvw provided(thanks!) I have come to understand that:

1. Full SAPS are preferred in a gas engine application, and low/mids are preferred for dpf's and direct injection. However, low/mid SAPS can also be run in a gas engine(non di) without any problems as long as quality low sulphur fuel is used.

2. Generally speaking the higher the hths number the better in regards to engine protection, resistance to shear, and fuel economy.

3.ACEA C3 is a spec for oil that calls for high hths, and is used to help preserve fuel economy, but is low in sulphated ash to help prolong the life of dpf's

I have been reading quite a bit from bitog posts and this is what I have been able to piece together. Again, I am sorry to keep pestering, but am having a very difficult time putting all of these specs/data/ratings into a fully understood package. If anyone can correct me if I'm wrong on the above points, or provide any more enlightening information, I would be grateful. I appreciate all the help so far, just trying to understand the "big picture".

Thanks!

Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: MoPowa] #5287877 12/07/19 04:52 PM
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C3 is high HTHS oil....some manufacturers do produce oils which are C3/C2.... Protect as C3 but can also preserve fuel like C2

ACEA A5/B5 or C5/C2/C1 oils are "CAFE" oriented... HTHS below 3.5!


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Tech9 5W30 C3 VW 504/507
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Elf Evolution NF900 5W40
Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: MoPowa] #5288031 12/07/19 08:10 PM
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HTHS is roughly how thick the oil is under load (min oil film thickness under high temp & high shear). So the higher the number the thicker the oil, higher HTHS offers more oil film protection but at the cost of more viscous drag which reduces fuel economy. Once the parts aren’t touching (hydrodynamic region) going thicker doesn’t reduce wear anymore (just wastes a little more fuel) but it does offer an increased safety margin if you push the car harder (Racing, towing, etc) which causes the engine to run hotter (oil thins as it heats). This is all a property of the base oil itself.

Sulphate Ash (SA% or SAPS) is a property of the metallic additives put in the base oil, to help make the finished oil product. Typically calcium and magnesium detergents are added to buffer the oil against acid build up due to combustion products. The anti-wear additive ZDDP adds zinc and phos. These additives protect the oil (for longer oil change intervals - OCI) and protect the engine from wear (when parts of the engine drop below the hydrodynamic lubrication region). All good, except they can also cause problems with the exhaust system in some modern engines.

Petrol (gas) engines can have their exhaust cats damaged by Phos in the ZDDP, while Diesel engines can have their exhaust DPF filters clogged by these metallic adds. Also some say that these add may contribute to intake deposit on modern TDI engines.

Anyway in the old days of port injection / carbs, rubbish fuel with 200 ppm sulphur and no exhaust cat / DPF then you wanted a high-SAPS oil for long oil life. Typical Euro A3/B4 oils.

Some more modern engines require mid-SAPS oils (typical C3) to protect their exhaust system, and they are still long life oils because fuel quality has improved due to significant reductions in sulphurs levels.

Without even worrying about specific OEM manufacturers approvals, it’s natural to have four major oil types: low or high HTHS with high or mid SAPS levels. Add low-SAPS to the mix and specific OEM tests for certain engines, and you now how the modern oil world.

To be honest, I have run 3 out of 4 of the above combinations in my old 2006 port-injection car without issue.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: MoPowa] #5288130 12/07/19 09:43 PM
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MoPowa Offline OP
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Wow, thank you! That completely answered my questions and just connected/corrected so much of what I was failing to understand. This post, and it's contributers, have pushed my knowledge and comprehension much much further. Thank you!

Re: Not to beat a dead horse but... [Re: edyvw] #5289034 12/09/19 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by edyvw

Originally Posted by weasley
Pennzoil platinum euro 0w-40 = full SAPS (1.0% max), high HTHS, ACEA A3/B4-type. Typical oil for older gasoline and diesel engines with no DPF, longer drain/severe service.

As far as I remember this should be minimum.


Quite right - wrote "max", thought "min". A3/B4 is 1.3 - 1.6% ash.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
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