Anyone backing up their data online?

[uc50ic4more]

Fellas, I am seeing a WHOLE LOT of you listing Dropbox, OneDrive, Google Drive, etc. as your "backup" solutions; but please be aware that these are NOT backup services, they are *synchronization* services. If your data becomes buggered at some point, that buggery will be *synced* to the cloud immediately, presuming the sync service is running. Errant deletions, ransomware encryptions and overwrites will all sync. You want a backup that is **decoupled** from your other copies of data.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by uc50ic4more
Fellas, I am seeing a WHOLE LOT of you listing Dropbox, OneDrive, Google Drive, etc. as your "backup" solutions; but please be aware that these are NOT backup services, they are *synchronization* services. If your data becomes buggered at some point, that buggery will be *synced* to the cloud immediately, presuming the sync service is running. Errant deletions, ransomware encryptions and overwrites will all sync. You want a backup that is **decoupled** from your other copies of data.


Don't understand what you're saying. Synchronization? Buggered? Decoupled? I have Google Drive. If I want to backup something, I have to go to my Google Drive and copy and paste the files from my computer that I want to backup, into the Drive.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by uc50ic4more
Fellas, I am seeing a WHOLE LOT of you listing Dropbox, OneDrive, Google Drive, etc. as your "backup" solutions; but please be aware that these are NOT backup services, they are *synchronization* services. If your data becomes buggered at some point, that buggery will be *synced* to the cloud immediately, presuming the sync service is running. Errant deletions, ransomware encryptions and overwrites will all sync. You want a backup that is **decoupled** from your other copies of data.


Don't understand what you're saying. Synchronization? Buggered? Decoupled? I have Google Drive. If I want to backup something, I have to go to my Google Drive and copy and paste the files from my computer that I want to backup, into the Drive.


Yes, and then if you screw up the data (errantly deleted it, overwrote it with something errant, corrupted it, etc.) you've "backed up" to Google Drive, that screw-up syncs to the Google Drive version (and cascades also to all other devices syncing via that Google account). Google Drive is not a backup - it is a synchronized copy. You mess up your data, your messed up data gets synchronized.

Backups need to be decoupled.

If that it still not making sense, try these:

https://www.howtogeek.com/346265/whats-the-difference-between-cloud-file-syncing-and-cloud-backup/

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/sync-vs-backup-vs-storage/

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by uc50ic4more
Yes, and then if you screw up the data (errantly deleted it, overwrote it with something errant, corrupted it, etc.) you've "backed up" to Google Drive, that screw-up syncs to the Google Drive version (and cascades also to all other devices syncing via that Google account). Google Drive is not a backup - it is a synchronized copy. You mess up your data, your messed up data gets synchronized.


Maybe I don't understand the meaning of synchronized, but when I save a copy of a document from my desktop to my Google Drive, it's the same as if I saved to an external hard drive. No other devices get a copy at that time. If I want an additional copy on my laptop, I would transfer the file from the desktop to a flash drive and use that to copy to the laptop.

 

[alarmguy]

Once your data is in the cloud, with the proper password anyone can steal your data and its more accessible being servers run 24 hours a day versus you shutting down your computer.

Most secure is always disconnected from the internet as far as the services discussed here go.

 

[BearZDefect]

If you are willing to handle your backup software, I think the price of Backblaze B2 is unbeatable.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Once your data is in the cloud, with the proper password anyone can steal your data and its more accessible being servers run 24 hours a day versus you shutting down your computer.

Most secure is always disconnected from the internet as far as the services discussed here go.


They can access the data however decent cloud backups encrypt(cryption key) at the computer level only and the data in cloud in not readable. You need a username a nd password to access in cloud and people there cannot read encryption. You need the client with local key.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted by BearZDefect
If you are willing to handle your backup software, I think the price of Backblaze B2 is unbeatable.


Wasabi is a hair more expensive at $0.0059/GB per month ($5.99/TB) but they don't charge for downloads unlike most if not all of the other services. Have been using them for a year and they are fast and reliable.

 

[javacontour]

Close to 2TB on BackBlaze.

The most important stuff also goes to another HD I connect quarterly or so and sync.

I have a number of VM disk image files that BB will back up.

I backup laptops and cell phones to the BB machine, which in turn backs up to the cloud.

I have a 300mb pipe to my home and I get that speed both ways, so it works. Been using them for a few years now.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Once your data is in the cloud, with the proper password anyone can steal your data and its more accessible being servers run 24 hours a day versus you shutting down your computer.

Most secure is always disconnected from the internet as far as the services discussed here go.


They can access the data however decent cloud backups encrypt(cryption key) at the computer level only and the data in cloud in not readable. You need a username a nd password to access in cloud and people there cannot read encryption. You need the client with local key.


But this is the problem. You are correct, however most all these services do not work that way. The key is in the cloud, not the computer level.

There is a company out there, working to change this on the corporate level on a grand scale for companies concerned. (long story, investment opportunity that I was looking into)
Most all consumer back ups in the cloud are simply password protected, get the password and you can get anything you want, its why, for the simple person, I suggest a simple back up hard drive and SSD because it is not online 24 hours a day.

Granted it does make things cumbersome for most people and then they dont do it. So maybe something is better then nothing and I would call backing up to the cloud "mid level" security/peace of mind, not really total security, I do think if you want total security, the way to do that, is simply get yourself a $50 drive and make sure you back up! *L*

Gosh, in my wifes industry, very, very large companies computers are taken down almost on a monthly basis, one big company in Oct paid a 1 Million dollar ransom to get their computers unlocked by a hacker.
Another 10 companies that month (combined) lost 100,000 to a hacker who had them redirect payments to a roque account. The stupidity of the employees in that instance was evident, maybe better said, lack of proper training by their employers.

Now with all the above said, backing up to the cloud is certainly convenient and nothing at all wrong with it, more so for the purpose of having a back up, not for the purpose of security.
Maybe that is all I was trying to say here *L* Backups are great, even in the cloud but dont be misled that true security is in the cloud, but true back ups can be in the cloud.

 

[Chester11]

Originally Posted by javacontour
Close to 2TB on BackBlaze.

The most important stuff also goes to another HD I connect quarterly or so and sync.

I have a number of VM disk image files that BB will back up.

I backup laptops and cell phones to the BB machine, which in turn backs up to the cloud.

I have a 300mb pipe to my home and I get that speed both ways, so it works. Been using them for a few years now.


Thanks. I'm testing out backblaze right now. I'm trying the "personal". I noticed they allow you to keep a longer history for an additional $10/month (don't quote me).

What does the B2 plan get me? Versioning history?

How do you sync locally - just a drag and drop or using software?

Sorry for the questions...

 

[javacontour]

I have a couple of portable 2TB hard drives that I periodically connect and sync with FreeFileSync

I don't use the B2 plan, so I don't know what it might offer.

Yesterday, I restored about 20GB of files from my failed HD to get a VM image. More just to see if I could, after all, what good is a backup if you cannot recover from it?

Didn't really need to as I run many of the same VMs on my laptop, so if I needed it, I could export it from one machine and import to another.

Originally Posted by Chester11


Thanks. I'm testing out backblaze right now. I'm trying the "personal". I noticed they allow you to keep a longer history for an additional $10/month (don't quote me).

What does the B2 plan get me? Versioning history?

How do you sync locally - just a drag and drop or using software?

Sorry for the questions...

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Cloud is not 100% safe either, after all it is still servers and a bunch of spinning HDDs that can fail. Yes, there are redundancies built in, but failures and outages still can happen.


I don't think you understand how cloud datacenters work. Computing units are huge, like the size of a large shipping container, and replaced when the mean failure percentage of scale-out servers contained within reaches a pre-determined percentage threshold. Like 30%. When that threshold is reached the entire snipping container size unit is replaced with another and the "failed" unit is sent to the manufacturer for refurbishment.

The failure of an individual server or drive is meaningless. Components are not replaced at that level in service. The scale is huge.

You're more likely to be affected by a service wide outage, or a DDoS attack. Microsoft and Amazon have had several service wide outages over the years.

 

[Brons2]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Once your data is in the cloud, with the proper password anyone can steal your data and its more accessible being servers run 24 hours a day versus you shutting down your computer.

Most secure is always disconnected from the internet as far as the services discussed here go.


But, you need to secure your PC/Server as well if you are relying on it as a data storage resource. If your PC is not secured, once I sit down in front of it, it's my PC. I don't need your password to log into it, I will hack into it if the drive is not encrypted. Password protecting the BIOS and physically locking the case is also recommended.

Physical security is extremely important. In that way the cloud providers have your average home user beat.

 

[Chester11]

Originally Posted by javacontour
I have a couple of portable 2TB hard drives that I periodically connect and sync with FreeFileSync

I don't use the B2 plan, so I don't know what it might offer.

Yesterday, I restored about 20GB of files from my failed HD to get a VM image. More just to see if I could, after all, what good is a backup if you cannot recover from it?

Didn't really need to as I run many of the same VMs on my laptop, so if I needed it, I could export it from one machine and import to another.

Originally Posted by Chester11


Thanks. I'm testing out backblaze right now. I'm trying the "personal". I noticed they allow you to keep a longer history for an additional $10/month (don't quote me).

What does the B2 plan get me? Versioning history?

How do you sync locally - just a drag and drop or using software?

Sorry for the questions...



Awesome - thank you sir - just what I was looking for. Appreciate it.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted by Brons2
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Once your data is in the cloud, with the proper password anyone can steal your data and its more accessible being servers run 24 hours a day versus you shutting down your computer.

Most secure is always disconnected from the internet as far as the services discussed here go.


But, you need to secure your PC/Server as well if you are relying on it as a data storage resource. If your PC is not secured, once I sit down in front of it, it's my PC. I don't need your password to log into it, I will hack into it if the drive is not encrypted. Password protecting the BIOS and physically locking the case is also recommended.

Physical security is extremely important. In that way the cloud providers have your average home user beat.



I've been inside some serious data centers as part of my job function. The physical security is very intense. That was a few years ago when my company's data was stored in a specific location or specific server. Now, a lot of data is stored on Amazon servers and who knows where it is physically.

Overall, though. Seems like overkill to back up my vacation pictures. Need to let the criticality of your data dictate the level of security on your data and back ups.

 

[javacontour]

We have a number of customers who do not allow data containing devices to leave their data center. If we replace a drive or similar, it stays there and is destroyed.

They don't want a "CNN Moment" with an announcement that someone was harvesting data from devices removed from the data center.

 

[PandaBear]

Cloud backup done right is a lot safer than local storage alone because you can have multiple regions replication (i.e. 1 in Europe, 1 in US East, 1 in US West, 1 in Asia), you just can't them them all out in one earthquake or fire. You are at risk if you screw up the online security and others find them. So they are not used as often for online transaction or privacy data.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted by Leo99
I've been inside some serious data centers as part of my job function. The physical security is very intense. That was a few years ago when my company's data was stored in a specific location or specific server. Now, a lot of data is stored on Amazon servers and who knows where it is physically.


You do not want to know which physical location data center is at, it is disguised and only known on a need to know basis.

The drives get destroyed when they are done for, crushed, before leaving the facility. You cannot say the same about your own IT employee not copying data off your drive before crushing. Human is always the weakest link in security, including insider and your own employees.