Detroit Diesel Condemnation Limits

[TooSlick]

Oil Analysis Allowable Limits for "Series 60", DD Engines. Ref: DDC Publication #7SE 398

Viscosity change @ 40C:
+ 40%, or -15%

Soot, 1.5% max

TBN using ASTM D-4739, > 1.0
TBN using ASTM D-2896, > 2.0

Water, < 0.3%

Fuel, < 2.5%

Glycol, < 1000 ppm

Iron, < 150 ppm, Copper, < 30 ppm

Tooslick

[ February 15, 2004, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Doug Hillary]

TooSlick :

Surely this post should be under the Industrial stream as no DD Series 60 engine could be deemed a Light Duty Diesel

I believe you may be refering to an outdated set of figures - they are sadly inappropriate, and may have been updated by a later version of 7SE more in line with CH-4 and CI-4 oil use

I will quote from 7SE270 9902 which is now also old. These are not condemnation limits but - single sample guidance limits. These have been also been superceded by various Service Bulletins, for instance the LSB01-99 referred to below

1 - Viscosity as stated in your post @ 40C;
% Max increase 40% or Max decrease 15%
Note:LSB01-99 = Viscosity @100C = 20cSt

2 - Soot to E1131 or LEM;
1.5%
3.0% when using a CH-4 oil
Note: ## 3.5%

3 - TBN;
a) D4739 - 1
b) D2896 - 2
Note:LSB01-99 = 60% reduction/ 3 min TBN

4 - Water;
0.3% volume

5 - Fuel
2.5% volume

5 - Antifreeze,
Negligible

6 - Iron
150ppm and confirmed in LSB01-99

7 - Copper
30ppm

## 3.5% - Mobil allow a soot level of at least 3.5% when using Delvac 1 5w-40

A CH-4 oil was made mandatory for all 1999 series engines

Prior to DDEC4 ECM series engines the Series 60 engine was not too "fussy" on oil quality. The DDEC4 ECM which has a real time clock was installed along with various engine modifications ( piston/ring area and etc ) that caused extreme high temperature sludging if Note: This was quite common in fleets that already had DDEC 1,2,and 3 engines in use and were using a
I never experienced this problem as I have always used oils like Castrol RX Super, Enduro LD a semi-synthetic, and Delvac 1 and carrying out UOAs to set my OCIs and monitor the engines

Detroit Diesel MTU Australia have always been very conservative regarding OCIs etc - much more so than in NA. They disregarded 7se270 9902 which allow 24kkms and mandated 15kkms.
I have been using 100kkms as the OCI with Delvac 1 for the last four years and averaging about 90kkms over all engines

Regards
Doug

[ February 15, 2004, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[TooSlick]

Excellent!

The soot limit of 3.5% makes much more sense to me, given the levels I've seen in fleet tests of Delvac 1 and that other unnamed synthetic

A viscosity increase from say 15 Cst to 20 Cst @ 100C would roughly correspond to +33%. I have no problems going with that number either. Oil thickening tends to be more pronounced at low temps anyway, so this corresponds very closely to the +40% figure @ 40C that I cited ....

Only "Man Dogs and Englishman" are up at this hour, me thinks!

Ted

 

[SteveS]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Detroit Diesel MTU Australia have always been very conservative regarding OCIs etc - much more so than in NA. They disregarded 7se270 9902 which allow 24kkms and mandated 15kkms.

---

Doug, remember that fuel sulfur in Australia is higher than in the USA, justifying DD-MTUs conservatism. (Or it was higher when I left Oz less than 2 years ago)

I remember once working out the ideal OCI for Mercedes Benz truck engines just on fuel sulfur consumed, and while it was recommended for 30,000 km oil changes in Europe it should have had its oil changed at 12,000 to 15,000 km in Aussie.

Just to emphasise the contribution to OCI of fuel sulfur, I remember some DDC 2 cycles operating in the Middle East which were using 1% sulfur fuel. These were having to have their oil changed every 50 hours and were being overhauled (rings and liners) at 500 hours because they were using an HDEO with less than 1% sulfated ash oil.