Recent Topics
How drunk do you have to be to do this?
by dishdude - 02/17/20 11:09 PM
At least they show you
by Jake777 - 02/17/20 10:04 PM
Ryan Newman update
by P10crew - 02/17/20 09:17 PM
Thoughts on 2015+ Kia Sedona?
by 92saturnsl2 - 02/17/20 09:16 PM
Quiet riding tire
by wolf_06 - 02/17/20 08:27 PM
Where did the Ryan Newman thread go??
by P10crew - 02/17/20 08:02 PM
2013 FX4 repair.
by marine65 - 02/17/20 07:36 PM
New gaming build shutting down on Metro 2033
by Cujet - 02/17/20 07:09 PM
Snapon
by P10crew - 02/17/20 06:51 PM
Conventional or Synthetic
by charmer37 - 02/17/20 06:49 PM
Jeep Wrangler 3.0L Diesel
by HighbrowHillbill - 02/17/20 06:36 PM
94 B4000 overheat Eureka
by HyundaiAbuser - 02/17/20 05:48 PM
PP Euro 5w40 SN Plus formulation VOA
by BurntMusic - 02/17/20 04:35 PM
Bicycle Shops
by CourierDriver - 02/17/20 04:26 PM
EBC Brakes
by hatt - 02/17/20 04:17 PM
Dream Car
by MrQuackers - 02/17/20 04:06 PM
What are people using now for outdoor antennas?
by BAJA_05 - 02/17/20 02:49 PM
3.0L TDI
by Shorthorn - 02/17/20 02:48 PM
Mountain Bike Whee/Tire Sizes!
by jcartwright99 - 02/17/20 02:21 PM
Newest Members
Tgarst, Predator35001819, Markapuu, jds59, JimMorrison
70728 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
30 registered members (ArrestMeRedZ, bbhero, AnthemBassMan, Black_Thunder, bachman, alanwayne1908, 4 invisible), 895 guests, and 20 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics301,597
Posts5,198,770
Members70,728
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles #5285232 12/04/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,549
L
Lolvoguy Offline OP
OP Offline
L
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,549
Recently I watched a documentary on YouTube where they questioned the future of the German auto industry.
They mentioned that Asian countries like China are leading the way. Now China has Germany producing it's projects.
Usually I'd ignore videos like this, but considering the increasing number of European cities (and countries- Norway in particular who plans to phase out ICE engines in 6 years time) taxing and phasing out ICE vehicles, I'm interested to see how things develop.

Germany made it's name with the ICE over 100 years ago, now it seems like the Germans are being left behind.

Despite my initial reluctance to them, the electric setup is far simpler and reliable than the current offerings for ICE engines (diesel and gas). Fewer moving parts, less items to maintain etc.
When you take a look at the offerings from MB, BMW, Volvo etc, you'll see that they simply cannot compare to companies like Toyota, Hyundai, Honda etc.

What are your thoughts?

Youtube Video


06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
Say "no" to Turbo!
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285239 12/04/19 06:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,457
R
Rand Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,457
they make a good second car or commuter.
they cant be the only vehicle yet.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
2020 Hyundai Elantra "Value Edition"
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285243 12/04/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,268
sloinker Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,268
Volkswagen made a strategic partnership with Ford for electric vehicle technologies going forward. I think that the European manufacturers are a little behind the 8 ball for now but I foresee parity in the future. I also believe that the demographics of car buyers for electric vehicles will mirror current demographics of purchasers. A Tesla or Aston-Martin electric car purchaser probably doesn't look twice at a Nissan Leaf and vice-versa.


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Ravenol VMP 5W30
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI VMP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Red Line Blue Label 5W20
'64 Plymouth Fury440 Red Line Blue Label 10W40
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285245 12/04/19 06:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,958
JohnnyJohnson Offline
Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,958
They were a little reluctant to build the 1975 VW prototype 3 cylinder diesel that got over 175 MPG too.


2004 Corolla 138781
Out: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 10-29-19 136457
In: Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W-20 ST 4386
2006 Duramax 77060
Out: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73909
In: Rotella Dino PH9100 11-3-19
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285250 12/04/19 06:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,549
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,549
The Audi E-Tron is actually really nice, I test drove one but the talk of range and battery life on here when I made a thread about it caused me to back off on the purchase. Definitely a far nicer offering than others on the market from what I've seen however.

If my wife and I weren't trying to move to the country, I'd probably have pulled the trigger.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285253 12/04/19 06:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 959
P
Pelican Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 959
Wait till the cost per KWH goes up to the equiv of $5 a gallon or more and the very same people that clamour for electric cars will cry foul!
Under the present infrastructure there isn't enough electricity to supply all the A/C at peak periods so what are they going to do when demand raises?
I don't see any additional infrastructure being built ! Oh but soon the greens will want a nuclear car, because THAT is clean energy crazy and once you have reactor under the hood you'll never have to stop for fill-ups and then we'll have the problem of where/how to dispose of the byproduct, but that another story.

Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Pelican] #5285255 12/04/19 06:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,549
O
OVERKILL Offline
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,549
Originally Posted by Pelican
Wait till the cost per KWH goes up to the equiv of $5 a gallon or more and the very same people that clamour for electric cars will cry foul!
Under the present infrastructure there isn't enough electricity to supply all the A/C at peak periods so what are they going to do when demand raises?
I don't see any additional infrastructure being built ! Oh but soon the greens will want a nuclear car, because THAT is clean energy crazy and once you have reactor under the hood you'll never have to stop for fill-ups and then we'll have the problem of where/how to dispose of the byproduct, but that another story.


The byproduct is actually pretty easy to deal with. EV's in Ontario are mostly nuclear powered by proxy, thanks to our 18 units.

A tiny SMR would be a novel source of power for an EV actually. You could use it to run/charge your house when you were home too, basically having a portable power source. Many of the SMR designs are not meant to be refuelled, they are sealed units with a 20-year lifespan. A 0.25MW SMR, if it could be made small enough, and secure enough, would be more than sufficient for basically any vehicle, however what one would do with the waste heat is another issue.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Pelican] #5285256 12/04/19 06:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,268
sloinker Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,268
Originally Posted by Pelican
Wait till the cost per KWH goes up to the equiv of $5 a gallon or more and the very same people that clamour for electric cars will cry foul!
Under the present infrastructure there isn't enough electricity to supply all the A/C at peak periods so what are they going to do when demand raises?
I don't see any additional infrastructure being built ! Oh but soon the greens will want a nuclear car, because THAT is clean energy crazy and once you have reactor under the hood you'll never have to stop for fill-ups and then we'll have the problem of where/how to dispose of the byproduct, but that another story.


I somewhat agree. I believe that electric and autonomous cars are the future. People will own a share of the car that will arrive and pick up and deliver passengers, maybe a network of vehicles that will allow passengers to transit throughout the nation(s) by virtue of changing rides along the way.


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Ravenol VMP 5W30
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI VMP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Red Line Blue Label 5W20
'64 Plymouth Fury440 Red Line Blue Label 10W40
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Pelican] #5285262 12/04/19 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,766
P
philipp10 Offline
Offline
P
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by Pelican
Wait till the cost per KWH goes up to the equiv of $5 a gallon or more and the very same people that clamour for electric cars will cry foul!
Under the present infrastructure there isn't enough electricity to supply all the A/C at peak periods so what are they going to do when demand raises?
I don't see any additional infrastructure being built ! Oh but soon the greens will want a nuclear car, because THAT is clean energy crazy and once you have reactor under the hood you'll never have to stop for fill-ups and then we'll have the problem of where/how to dispose of the byproduct, but that another story.

go up to $5 a gallon equivalent? Not going to happen. The world is not in static limbo.....

Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285299 12/04/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
C
CARJ Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche all have teams in the Formula E series. If they didn't care about the technology, I think they wouldn't be there.


2004 Toyota 4Runner | 194k | Havoline Pro DS 5w-30, YZZD3
2012 VW Passat | 97k | M1 0w-40, XG9911
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285317 12/04/19 07:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 105
S
Saabist Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 105
They make no economic sense. They're too expensive. (Compare cost of a Leaf and a Versa, the same car other than electric vs. gasoline.) Today's batteries have many limitations and don't meet the needs of lots of people. I just don't see any logical reason for this mad rush to electric vehicles. Maybe if someone invents "Mr. Fusion" but we're not anywhere near that yet.

Remember, electric cars are the past - they were superceded by internal combustion a century ago for reasons that are still valid to this day.

Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285327 12/04/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,367
M
MParr Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,367
Total electric vehicles just aren’t going to make much impact any time soon. Limited operating range is a big stumbling block. Going on a long trip? To much down time for charging. Hybrid electric vehicles are just better at this time.


2019 VW Tiguan SE 2.0 TSI Now: Castrol Professional OE LL IV 0W20 & OE VW/Mann
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Kendall GT-1 Max 5W30 FS & NAPA Gold 1348
93 Octane Non-Ethanol
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285375 12/04/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,159
J
JeffKeryk Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,159
The Germans love the Model 3, even though they are hard to get.
Germny Model 3 sales

There are plans for the next Gigafactory there.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285378 12/04/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 844
N
NO2 Offline
Offline
N
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 844
They make a good primary vehicle for those who live in cities, and mostly commute. Just rent an ICE vehicle for long trips. But for the foreseeable future, a hybrid is the way to go.

Re: Germany's reluctance to electric vehicles [Re: Lolvoguy] #5285420 12/04/19 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,729
SubieRubyRoo Offline
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,729
For those who live in major cities and "commute", mass transit makes sense. An electric vehicle does not, if they are interested in minimizing costs to offset the higher expenses associated with living in a major city. Take Chicago... parking spots, especially hourly spots, are extremely cost prohibitive. Monthly parking spots are crazy as well, and as in any major city, there are not enough spots to go around as you drive around the city. Hence, you'll park farther away, and extend your travel times, drive up your costs thru insurance, parking, charging, etc. And with IOT and "smart" (I use the term loosely) grids, there is most definitely a day coming when charging your PowerWheels could challenge the cost of gas. If you do not own a vehicle, monthly passes for mass transit are generally significantly cheaper than owning a vehicle and the associated expenses.

The only real place I see electric cars making more than nominal sense is where: 1. you live less than 40 miles from work each way, but farther than mass transit access, 2. work parking is free, 3. work provides free charging, and 4. if you travel via vehicle for pleasure, you also own one with ICE. If you don't meet the first 3, then I think you're actually worse off owning an EV. Just my .02.


De omnibus dubitandum.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™