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I am laughing so hard....not really #5284085 12/03/19 03:04 PM
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JLTD Offline OP
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'08 Liberty in signature. ~154,000 miles. Been solid except for a few niggling Jeep issues, mainly HVAC, which we've had it in for - and warranty work for the same thing- thrice now.

Two weeks ago it threw a code for high coolant pressure and we had a new thermostat installed; all was fine after the repair. Then 5 days ago, wife reported no heat - again. All was fine in between, and suddenly the heat was gone.

Third time no heat, including new manifold under the dash, associated control panel and two heater core replacements mad

I was away so Mrs JLTD stopped driving it and drove mine, only trip in the Jeep was to get her home and later a couple blocks out and back then the drive to the dealer. So back to the dealer we went, for warranty service. Engine's running fine, except started to overheat on the way to the dealer. Pop the hood @ dealership and engine's dry on top with nothing leaking anywhere.


Fast forward 5 hours....get a call and they tell me there's no coolant in the engine shocked2 and they've done a "carbon test" and figured out that the head gasket is gone. OK I think, I've seen a sudden head gasket failure with no external signs before. But why did it take them 5 hours to see that? I was 2nd in line this morning...

Then the service advisor asks, "How much does you wife love this car?". Uh, oh I think. Advisor won't give me the estimate over the phone, says I'll get a texted link. I opened the link and that's when I laughed.


Before I get to the engine--

They also recommend full front and rear brake rotor replacement. I just did the brakes around 20k ago, checked 'em during tire rotation (Sept) and the pads are good. It's 12 years old, got some rust on the calipers, which seems to be the major issue they're having.

Steering rack leaking and needs to be replaced. Just checked the driveway, again, and no sign of anything leaking. The rack was dry when I was under there in October for the oil change (which will be changed again).

Head gasket needs to be replaced, and according to the tech: engine is too old for head gasket replacement, engine needs to be replaced.

And he misspelled "too old" writing "to old" instead. duh

[censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] )^#@$% STEALERSHIP.


Oh, and they want 10 grand. I am tempted to violence, but instead I'll get it to a nearby mechanic we trust. I realize the vehicle's old and to some extent it's throwing good money after bad. Perhaps it's time to get it repaired well enough to go trade it in.....which may be the whole point of the dealer's whopper of an estimate.


/rant

Question: I'm not familiar with the Carbon Test. Can anyone enlighten me before I go down the internet rabbit hole?

Last edited by JLTD; 12/03/19 03:14 PM.

I use the overseas manual to choose my viscosity.


Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 154k, SS 5w30/Amsoil
Looking at options.

His: 2015 4Runner 60k, SS 5w20/Amsoil

Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284097 12/03/19 03:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
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skyactiv Offline
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Carbon test: https://repairpal.com/how-to-test-for-head-gasket-failure

In large cities, you can sometimes find a garage on the bad side of town that does work cheap. Like swinging in a used engine for $1000.00


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Sold: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Me: 18' Elantra Sport 6 speed manual


Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284099 12/03/19 03:22 PM
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ragtoplvr Offline
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In college, one of the automotive technology instructors worked with a local TV station doing a dealer /mechanic expose. Nice to see in over 40 years, it has not changed.

That head needs to be checked to see if it is still flat. The top of the block also. Any decent independent mechanic should be able to replace the gasket, and have the head surfaced if needed.

Rod

Last edited by ragtoplvr; 12/03/19 03:25 PM.
Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284101 12/03/19 03:23 PM
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Blkstanger Offline
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They test for Carbon Monoxide in the cooling system. That tells them combustion gasses are passing the head gasket.


99 Jeep WJ 4.7 200,000mi. Maxlife 10w30, Fram Ultra.
15 Ford Escape S 2.5 Castrol Edge EP 5w30 Fram Ultra.
Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284104 12/03/19 03:26 PM
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skyactiv Offline
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Try this, follow the directions to the tee and report back.



Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Sold: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Me: 18' Elantra Sport 6 speed manual


Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284105 12/03/19 03:29 PM
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bullwinkle Offline
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The way you described it-"no heat" multiple times, I would have guessed HG trouble right away. Have they even torn into it to see if the heads are good or not? It might not be that hard to repair, since the coolant has likely been sucked in & burned, and the engine has not been overheated multiple times. Guessing this is under the wonderful "lifetime" powertrain warranty? If the engine is truly toast, the stealership likely hastened its demise by not diagnosing it correctly to begin with.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284113 12/03/19 03:37 PM
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Fotoflame Offline
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Man that sucks.

My wife had a 2001 Honda Civic and the head gasket went with symptoms similar to what you're experiencing. I read it was somewhat of a common problem for Civics of that generation.

I went to a local mechanic and he said it was better off to just replace the engine rather than spend labor hours on removing the head only to find out it was warped. But he recommended just to trade it in for something else if I could swing it. Honest guy.

Since it overheated not every often, I took it to a Carmax and sold it without an issue.

Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284115 12/03/19 03:40 PM
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atikovi Offline
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Originally Posted by JLTD
Two weeks ago it threw a code for high coolant pressure


So it must have a coolant pressure sensor? Where?

Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284123 12/03/19 03:46 PM
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The absolute most I would put into a 150,000 mile 08 Liberty is around $2k, if she likes it. I'd put some coolant in it and sell it with a potential head-gasket failure. You can buy 04-09 Rav4's or CRV's for $6-9 k in good mechanical condition with less miles on them, and they will be significantly less expensive to repair going forward. Just ignore the fact they both look like middle school art projects that won solid participation trophies.

Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: atikovi] #5284130 12/03/19 03:49 PM
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Imp4 Offline
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Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JLTD
Two weeks ago it threw a code for high coolant pressure


So it must have a coolant pressure sensor? Where?

With the head gasket compromised he was likely getting combustion pressure bleeding into the cooling system which resulted in the high coolant pressure code.


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: Fotoflame] #5284137 12/03/19 03:53 PM
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bullwinkle Offline
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Originally Posted by Fotoflame
Man that sucks.

My wife had a 2001 Honda Civic and the head gasket went with symptoms similar to what you're experiencing. I read it was somewhat of a common problem for Civics of that generation.

I went to a local mechanic and he said it was better off to just replace the engine rather than spend labor hours on removing the head only to find out it was warped. But he recommended just to trade it in for something else if I could swing it. Honest guy.

Since it overheated not every often, I took it to a Carmax and sold it without an issue.

This is EXACTLY what my brother's '97 Civic (that he bought for his son) is doing-combustion bubbles in the cooling system, heat disappears at random times (usually on interstate off ramps), eventually runs low on coolant. Amazingly a new 16 PSI radiator cap, radiator, and thermostat have it somewhat under control, but he has an HG job in his future!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: JLTD] #5284150 12/03/19 04:08 PM
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Skippy722 Online Happy
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Dealership tried that on my brother when he traded his Dart for the Charger... like dude, the brakes have less than 20k on them!


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: bullwinkle] #5284155 12/03/19 04:10 PM
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Fotoflame Offline
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I replaced the radiator cap and thermostat. It continued to occasionally overheat. The tell tale sign is that the exhaust gasses push all the coolant to the plastic expansion tank. If your coolant was filled to the brim in the tank, you knew you were screwed.

Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: Imp4] #5284160 12/03/19 04:24 PM
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atikovi Offline
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Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JLTD
Two weeks ago it threw a code for high coolant pressure


So it must have a coolant pressure sensor? Where?

With the head gasket compromised he was likely getting combustion pressure bleeding into the cooling system which resulted in the high coolant pressure code.


OK, but to set a high coolant pressure code, you need to sense high coolant pressure with some sensor. I don't remember coming across such a part and I have a Liberty myself.

Re: I am laughing so hard....not really [Re: Fotoflame] #5284164 12/03/19 04:34 PM
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bullwinkle Offline
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Originally Posted by Fotoflame
I replaced the radiator cap and thermostat. It continued to occasionally overheat. The tell tale sign is that the exhaust gasses push all the coolant to the plastic expansion tank. If your coolant was filled to the brim in the tank, you knew you were screwed.

I think it depends on how bad the HG leak is, his seems to pressurize the cooling system when running, then pull it in after shut off, but it's not really bad yet. I had an '89 Civic wagon that I had a buddy rebuild the head on (incl. 2 exhaust valves, valve job, and resurfacing) that I bought for $100, and a new set of rings, rod bearings, quick hone, and HG/oil pan gasket set had back on the road for under $500. Drove it for a few years & sold it for more than I had in it, so they can be repaired.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
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